SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello, new here but the site has been very helpful through a tough couple days. Thank you!

My story. Together for 8 years, married for 9. Both 38 years old, 1 7 year old child and 1 13 year old step daughter from her previous marriage.

Before Saturday morning I would have told you im in an amazing relationship with my soul mate who I trust 110%. A little background, her previous marriage ended because of her ex's affair with their neighbor right after they had a baby. She immediately ended it, moved out, and got a divorce. She had made it clear since the day we met she has a zero tolerance policy on cheating and dishonesty. I thought we were on the same page there.

She also was diagnosed with MS a couple years ago. This is of course a big part of our relationship, and often makes her feel like she's not pulling her weight when it comes to the kids, housework, sex, etc. I've supported her 100% every step of the way and thankfully to this point the symptoms are mostly extreme fatigue. It wreaks havoc on her emotions though.

We've recently had some projects done on the house. She works at home and I don't, so typically I would be there for the quote phase then when the work is being done I'd be at work and she'd be at home. A few weeks ago the sales guy for our latest project came out, seemed like a nice enough, unremarkable guy. I knew he was stopping by once in a while to check on the progress, but didn't give it a second thought.

Saturday literally seconds after i wake up, my wife (who clearly had not slept a wink and was hysterical) tells me we need to talk. She hands me a note that says last week, the sales guy kissed her and she kissed him back. Then on Friday (day before dday) he came by again, and it happened again, and this time escalated to some wandering hands along with a longer kiss. How long, and where the hands were im not sure if i want to know. She insists she came to her senses before it got sexual, made him leave, and will never speak to him again. She told me the next morning.

I was completely blindsided. My first instinct of course is not to believe she's telling me the whole story. She's a terrible liar so i want to believe her, but i also wouldn't have thought she was capable of even this level of deceit. She has been begging for forgiveness since and seems beyone remorseful. She claims it's not about us or our relationship, but her disease which makes her feel inadequate. Working at home and not being someone who socializes or even really has friends, the attention she got from this guy and the friendship followed by mutual attraction they formed was something new to her and made her forget about her sickness for a short time. Or so she says.

I am struggling.
If she feels so bad why did she not only neglect to tell me the first time, but sneak around to arrange a second? She insists she didn't think it would happen again, but I've called bullshit on that. She made sure to pick a day for him to "pick up the check" when she knew she'd be home alone, and she willingly decided to give it in person instead of mailing it. She wanted more.

I cant stop wondering what else i have missed, and if i really know her at all. I think i do, and i think she's being honest but there are so many questions and doubts.

Any input is appreciated.

I am so sorry about her MS but that is no excuse. I am sure there are MS groups who could give her support. Do y’all have dogs or cats? If not get one. She needs hobbies.

I know several people who have MS and one of them shows some signs of having mental/emotional issues. The horrible disease just really kind of wreaks havoc on lots of things. Again she needs that support group

I think you need to encourage her to get out of that house and go do something. If the only sign is her extreme fatigue she can have someone pick her up if necessary but she needs to go somewhere. The library might be the beginning.

If she allowed a predator like that guy in she is extremely depressed and that needs to be discussed with her Dr.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 2:14 AM, Thursday, August 25th]

I am tempted to consider him a predator too, but to be honest i get the feeling she was just as much to blame. She is attractive and it seems like they got along well, which escalated to flirting, which escalated to this.

You are 100% right though that she needs hobbies and friends. We do have pets but clearly that's not enough. She blames her MS for her cheating, but I lean towards her being vulnerable and lonely having more to do with it. I've got a close group of friends i socialize with often, she sees herself as a wife and mom and leaves no room for anything else.

She claims she did not consider having sex, but i do know they talked about it in some capacity because she said "it was on the table if i wanted it"

She is the most rational person i know, to a fault at times. She says she was not in her right mind, but I'm not buying it.

PF,

So sorry you are here. The general rule of thumb is that those who say "we only kissed" are lying, and something much more sexual occurred. But she did confess this herself (rather than being caught). That is almost as rare as "just a kiss" being true.

You deserve a full accounting of what was said and done, and you can decide how much info you want to know. But here’s the thing, she did it, and so you you have to decide whether you want any secrets to exist between her and this other man.

MS is debilitating for individuals and for caregivers, and desiring an escape is understandable. But you are walking this road with her and her limitations and didn’t stray. She doesn’t get a pass, and it doesn’t sound like you are giving her one.

You’ve got to take care of yourself right now. This includes eating, sleeping, working out, possibly consulting a therapist. It also includes getting to the truth of your marriage. Things like this supposed kiss don’t usually happen this quickly, nor in isolation. Discover the truth of your marriage. Then decide whether that truth is something you cans build from, or if your relationship is broken. Reconciliation takes time and a lot of work. Building trust back takes years.

We are here. We’ve walked the road, and a lot of good advice is going to come your way.

My thoughts are with you.

The MS is no excuse. She knows right from wrong. Is she willing to take a hard look at herself and how she became so broken as to be unfaithful? How can you have trust if she doesn’t address her need for attention and validation. Take care of you. Read in the healing library. Good luck.

I’m sorry this happened. I know it’s a shock and extremely painful.

This is tougher than some others because she confessed so that is a good start. She deserves some credit (I know that’s probably not the best wording).

You are going to need to investigate this or it will bother you.

Make her put it in writing. Maybe not full blow by blow of all sex acts but at least a general outline.

Kissing and any other sex acts. Just the names not a full play by play movie. It could do you harm with mental movies. That’s up to you though with what you need.

But every encounter they had. Every single time they were alone, how long how the flirting started, what was said.

This is good for her as it may make her feel bad but she can see the progression and that she can never allow a friendship down this path ever again.

Also tell her you will need a polygraph against the written timeline (maybe this will get her to spill more beans).

I would call the office of this man’s employer maybe consult an attorney to see if you have any options. I would not want the project from the company of the man that seduced my wife. Maybe you can get him at least off the project, maybe a reprimand or maybe a discount off their work. Worth a shot. Also see if he has a wife or girlfriend and contact her. Social media search or hire a pi if you need to. Make your wife pay for it. He needs some punishment.

Also maybe a few marriage counseling sessions. You are not in immediate danger it seems so it might help you be organized in talking about it. Maybe it will also help if she is still hiding something.

Since you have some time you can shop around find one you like. Find one that specializes in infidelity. Not some new age one that tells you to be polyamorous.

For her I would have her read the book "not just friends" by Shirley glass. Not only does it discuss the male friends part but the second half deals with infidelity recovery.

Another book you could actually read together is "Anatomy of an affair" by Dave carder. This book is actually meant to be read together by a couple and actually expands on not just friends with his "close call encounters" and also has some good couples exercises that might help you two connect.

You can’t just let this go but you don’t have to go scorched earth either. At least she confessed. Hopefully before it got sexual. She really could be telling the truth. Talk, get a little counseling, make sure this marriage is what she really wants as you will set her free.

I’m sorry. I wish you all the best. Listen to the regulars on here as they really do get things right the majority of the time.

MS is not a license to abuse and it does not directly cause one to cheat.

The only connection to MS and cheating might be "The Last Hurrah" factor. Where if you knew that soon you may become neuromuscularly grounded and not be able to engage in the things you love (ie dancing, running or…engaging in a steamy romance), you might become more impulsive? IDK

Regardless, I recommend you do what you can to get as much of the whole story as possible. Our experience here, is that WSs rarely ever initially come completely clean on the facts of the matter. The truth has to be dragged out of them in trickling fashion. They’re master minimizers.

You need to know the full scope of the betrayal you’re being asked to reconcile, forgive and eventually move-on from. Your decisions going forward should be informed decisions. Reconciliation is going to be the biggest gamble of your life and your investments of time and trust should be well considered and knowledge based.

It’s never "just" a kiss. There’s an enormous preamble, that involves many conscious premeditated decisions followed through with actions, that lead up to that first kiss.

She needs to realize this, out loud, to you and herself and acknowledge full understanding of the enormity and seriousness of what and how it happened. Only then will she appreciate the scope of work that lays before her required to fix herself, you and the marriage.

Her coming forward voluntarily is a positive sign. Hopefully this was genuine, motivated by true remorse, and not prompted by any other inducement.

I'm so sorry you are here and apologize for being blunt, but it's never just a kiss. Two adults alone in a home with attraction towards each other, the new "relationship" butterflies and time.

She feels guilty and admitted to romantic contact with another man because she feels you'd forgive her for that, but, the chances of them having had sex, is almost 100% certain.

You need a written timeline, verified by a polygraph at the very least. Once you know the extent of what you actually have to forgive, you can decide from there if you want to continue with this marriage or not. Further advice can be best targeted based upon the full truth and your choices when armed with it.

I would suggest not having sex with her again pending the outcome of an STD test, yes, some of them are even orally transmitted through a kiss.

Make no mistake, she has already betrayed you and you are fully justified to leave her simply on what was confessed. No-one can morally fault you if you walked away.

The trust is already broken and will take years to rebuild.

Good luck to you, this hurts.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:52 AM, Thursday, August 25th]

Hi so sorry for what has happened I’m new here too.
Guess I’ll start with the it’s just a kiss comment …. I also had this turned out was a way of getting rid of a little guilt I guess and turned out was long way from the truth in my case anyway.
My wife to was anti cheating her sisters had done it and never agreed with there actions.
I was told if the kiss the next day but was kinda played down he went in for a kiss before I knew it I was kissing him and pulled away.
Anyway I believed her till weeks later when she suddenly asked me you never asked anymore that day.
Got me thinking anyway asked weeks later something about it and the story was slightly different. Over months changed a bit couldn’t work out what happened took a year to find out they slept together just the once.
Anyway worked thru that which was hard and ended up another complete lie.
Tread carefully and guess what I’m trying to say is I hope was just a kiss and she is telling the truth but my history has taught me they become very good at lies and deceit and it’s taken me a long time to find what I now believe is the truth.
One thing I’ve learned is trust your gut and if it doesn’t make 100% sense it’s a lie.
Sorry your going thru this I know how hard it is.

Thank you for all the responses.

I just looked at her message and browser history and mostly got good news, i was honestly terrified of what I would find.

Her texts, i do believe she deleted and blocked his number before she even told me. She confided in her sister about what happened in vague terms but every message is along the tone of how stupid she feels, wondering what she was thinking, and talking about me, my reactions, worrying if I'll forgive her, and not a mention about the other guy.

Then there is her browser history, all of which is google searches about specifically kissing other men. Why it happens, how to repair your relationship, how to tell someone, etc. She also visited this site on the wayward side, yikes!

I am not deluding myself into thinking i am out of the woods. This is just getting started, we will get counseling, and the trust may never be fully rebuilt. She is a different person than i thought she was if she is capable of even going this far.

Separately, i did contact the owner of his company to let them know what he did, and make it clear he is never to come near my property again. The project is finished, and if we need service on it or something i will just use a different company.

I thought the owners signature was fitting-

Watch your thoughts; they become words.

Watch your words; they become actions.

Watch your actions; they become habits.

Watch your habits; they become character.

Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

[This message edited by PFB84 at 11:56 AM, Thursday, August 25th]

I recommend a timeline verified by a poly. Your mind will never be at ease unless you get the certainty provided by a poly. If there is more to say your WW will most likely try to get in front of it by telling you ahead of the poly (parking lot confession). It also lets her know the severity of her offense.

Please don’t fall into the typical I can’t hook my wife up to a poly thought process. She certainly didn’t fall into the typical I won’t cheat on my husband thought process.

Good job on calling the owner. At the very least if they are married they could grow a dislike for him.

Find out if he has a wife or girlfriend next. Tell her. Likely she would do her own investigation and if there is more she might tell you.

Confessing voluntarily, under no threat of discovery, is rather unusual here. Where it is done in a manner of nearly hysterical angst, and almost immediately after the act, I view it as, among other things, a sign of respect for the BH.

There is a trope here that cheaters lie and minimize. That is often true, but the much more common fact pattern here is a BH who gradually becomes aware of signs of cheating, his "spidey sense" begins to tingle, he begins to sleuth into her electronics and such, and voila. My impression is that in the rare instance where a cheater voluntarily confesses, it's more likely that she tells all.

To be clear, what she did is cheating. Infidelity. Adultery. However, unlike some here on SI who take the position that any species of cheating is Adultery -- all one and the same -- I think there are degrees of cheating, starting with that toe over the line and leading all the way to a full-on secret sexual affair that lasts for years. I look at it like a tornado. Some barely tickle the earth's surface; others grow to giant F5 wedges that ravage entire cities for extended duration.

As cheating goes, your WW's cheating was minor in terms of degree of physicality. The more salient point is the emotional component. She describes her process as having its roots in her feelings of inadequacy. That is pretty cliche and normal. A great many threads involving cheating wives are rooted in precisely this feeling. She feels a sense of loathing because you give her a lot and she feels she doesn't carry her weight. She longs to feel weightless, even just for a moment. Cheating with a scumbag sales person enables her to feel weightless. What she has to learn is that her contribution to the marriage is more than just doing stuff around the house. For any spouse in a functional marriage, a main contribution is the companionship, being a partner. I'm certain you let her know, in your way, that you value this. She simply needs to believe it. In many ways, her feeling is a species of imposter syndrome experienced by so many students at Ivy League universities, a nagging sense of not being worthy of the position.

As to the sale person, there are a lot of threads here of SAH wives cheating with contractors, trades people, or sales people. A man in sales, especially door-to-door home sales, learns early that in most home remodel situations, the wife is the decider. To be financially successful, a good sales person must sell himself to the wife. The reality is that this involves some degree of sycophancy. I'm reminded of the scene in Wayne's World where Benjamin Oliver (Rob Lowe's character) is trying to convince Noah Vanderhoff to invest in the project. Mr. Vanderhoff is at the studio with his wife. Benjamin quickly surmises that if he can convince Mrs. Vanderhoff, then Mr. Vanderhoff is in. So Bejamin turns on his smarmy fake charm, full sycophant mode, to the ditzy, vapid Mrs. Vanderhoff, convincing her that she can be a valuable part of the creative process of the record by hanging around in the studio and sharing her ideas. At first she suggests that she doesn't have any experience providing creative input to a record, but Benjamin persists, telling her that he can sense that she is a reservoir of good ideas. "Well, I watch a lot of television," she tells Benjamin. "Of course you do. You're creative." Benjamin quips back, his seediest ersatz Cheshire Cat leer looking back at her.

Rob Lowe plays that scene masterfully. In your case, smarmy sales guy played a similar scene with your WW. He's a slimy asshole who plays the same song for every housewife he encounters during his quotidian work day, fishing to see if he gets any bites. He has no real emotional connection nor desire for any of them; just an unfiltered enjoyment of seeing how far he can get, possibly cuckolding the occasional husband hard at work earning the money to pay for what he's selling (while he's taking what he's taking). I frame it in that crass way because part of your WW's own work is to realize that the bigger horror about what she did isn't what she did, but who she did it with. She has allowed herself to wallow very deeply in some awful existential muck to allow herself to be vulnerable to this sort of cynical come-on by a greasy asshole. That's some deep shit. How much self-loathing has she secretly been carrying around, and for how long?

I’m going to be a bit more sympathetic towards her and what happened.

True, MS is no excuse. There never is an "excuse" for infidelity, and yes kissing is definitely a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Let’s be very clear on both these issues. I am neither minimizing or dismissing what took place.

However… there are some considerations that might explain and possibly mitigate what took place. Not excuse, but maybe help with the next steps.

First and most important is the self-confession. She could have blocked OM, avoided him, refused him entry into the home and given you some excuse or reason and you would never have been the wiser. Coming forth and confessing is an indicator that she acknowledges what she did was not only wrong, but seriously wrong. There is no "it was only a kiss, no harm done" that we so often see in it’s various forms here on SI.

Second: MS isn’t an excuse, but we all can have periods where we question our lives, our validity and our value. We all seek validation in some form or another. Most of us in healthy ways: we feel validated when we can pay our bills and have some cash left over, we feel validated when a customer compliments our work, we feel validated when we get a raise, we feel validated when we look at our family all happy eating dinner.
Others need unhealthier forms of validation. That can be as "innocent" as light flirting, that can be as harmful as needing to realize the flirting isn’t "innocent" or light but full of intent. Note I started by calling this unhealthy validation – it takes lots of forms. Bullying is validating superiority, wining an argument can validate superiority…

I can fully understand that something like a damning illness can shatter self-worth and validation. Don’t know the extend of her illness, but things like limited work or no financial contribution, being told bad news again and again, limited progress… none of this adds to self-worth unless it’s already at a very good place originally.

Excuse? No. Reason? Possibly.

Third: There are people – both men and women, although I have mainly encountered this with men – that hit on anything and everything they can hit on.
Over the years I have witnessed and worked with a couple of guys that seldom slept alone, and often slept with someone other than their partner. These men generally fronted confidence (often with little content), assurance, they mastered contact, mastered reeling you in and mastered making you bite. All attributes a good salesman could put to good use. Only – if misused they are selling their bodies at the cost of yours. We can call them predators, but frankly they only catch what bites their lure.
Fishing reference? I have a friend who generally catches more fish than I do. The reason being he cast further and more often. Covers more ground. It’s the same with these guys that they get more women because they are constantly casting and covering a lot of space. Had your wife’s friend been there when he was in your house he would have hit on both of them.

Now – doesn’t excuse her actions but might explain why she was reeled in.

How to move on?
Well… IMHO you have two good options. Neither easy, but both "good" if they fit what you want.

You can divorce.
You can reconcile.

You don’t necessarily need to decide which option you take now, but eventually you reach that fork.

For NOW this is what I would do:

Make your wife realize you appreciate her telling you what happened. That her honesty goes some way in helping you deal with this.
Ask her how she can assure you it’s the truth – the number of events, what happened and so on.
Make it very clear to her that NOW is the time for truth. Complete truth. If you trust yourself to it then make her a promise: No matter what she shares NOW will not automatically lead you to divorce – give her an "amnesty" for 30 days. (It’s to your advantage anyways because it’s never smart to decide in anger or pressure). If she admits they met 4 times and/or had wild sex on the couch… NOW is the time to learn about it.

Honestly – learning about more now will cause less damage than learning something trivial in six months. Learning it then indicates your wife hasn’t trusted you for the truth, and lack of trust is a marriage-killer.

There are certain actions that experience tells us will help kill affairs.
Key amongst them is making all stakeholders painfully aware of what’s going on.
Is the OM married? His wife should be told. This isn’t for ethical reasons or because it’s the correct thing to do. It’s because for HIM your wife is just the catch of the day, and if the catch of the day bites back he throws it back into the pond. Rejection is a great killer of romance.
I’m guessing his wife knows he’s a player and this is the umpth time this happens.

His boss should know. He is a salesman? Let his boss know that he is a predator and took advantage of your wife. Even if the boss claims it’s consensual you point out that this was on business time and not a service you asked for… Make it totally clear that you are willing to notify the better business bureau or whatever and that any future business is 100% dependent on how the boss reacts.

Other than that… You two need some time to decide your next steps. This wont heal or go away in a week or two. This is something you will be dealing with for months. The key is getting the truth. You can rebuild from a firm foundation and that foundation tends to be a combination of past behavior and truth.

Regarding telling the other SO, im pretty sure he mentioned having a girlfriend. I would not know how to contact her and he doesnt seem to have social media though. Its something I've thought about and will do given the opportunity.

Thank you all again for your input. Going to get some more answers today.

Ahhh the slippery slope.

You see it’s a series of choices that out them together.

While I understand your wife’s health issues and the emotional toll, it’s not an excuse. She did make some bad choices but it’s a positive she stopped and was honest.

I hope you can reconcile.

Your wife needs to find a good support group for her condition. That will help her.

And some good counseling for her too. I think that should be something you tell her is required for her - it will definitely help her.

Well, i should have known.

We just sat down and talked details for the first time.

Of course, I didn't have the full story. The making out on Friday did progress to the point she started oral sex (her on him, but not vice versa). Then she allegedly stopped before it finished, had a breakdown and told him to leave.

The trickle is real. While this is the first time we spoke about the details, she also clearly told me in her original confession that progressing further meant "inappropriate hands"

I told her she was flat out lying if she doesnt consider a blowjob and fingers sex. I told her this is the last chance she gets to tell the full truth if there is any chance of staying together. I got some more details on the where/when/how and feel like i got real answers.

What it comes down to is managing her own guilt. She doesnt want to admit to herself that what she did is sex, because in her mind shes still a person who would never have sex outside the marriage. Well not anymore.

We are looking for MC

[This message edited by PFB84 at 3:17 PM, Thursday, August 25th]

I’m sorry you are here.

Quickly, conventional wisdom is to hold off on MC for a while 3-6-12 months after infidelity. It wasn’t the marriage being broken that caused her to do this, it was something inside her.

Instead find individual counselors for each of you. She should find one that specializes in Infidelity and one who specializes in trauma for you. Begin working with them.

That’s the starting point. If she can fix what is broken in her and become empathetic and remorseful (not regretful) in respect to what she has done then maybe she can win you back and you can start MC.

Slow down. You have a long road ahead. There is no easy fix and more likely than not the result will be divorce (statistically).

We are rooting for you but more important we are supportive of you.

You can’t fix her. Only she can. It’s her desire to take the lead and do so that will show you if she’s worthy of a life with you.

Ask her for a recovery and rebuilding plan and tell her you are not willing to start MC until she’s worked on herself in IC for at least 6 months.

Take care.

Good morning, so sorry you find yourself here.

Please, please do not go to MC right now. Your wife/you need individual counseling. The marriage is not broken, she is.

She needs to figure out why she cheated, and you desperately need support to navigate through this trauma.

As far as her stopping during the act, it's 50-50. Too many of us here got the whole truth until we got the whole truth.

Both of you need to get checked for STDs as well. Meet with your MD for some temporary medications if you are having trouble coping/sleeping.

Post as often as you need to.

FIrst off, i wish you had no need of this site. Im sorry. I've been here long enough that almost nothing surprises me anymore. Suffering through betrayal takes the shine off life and now I expect the worst from people. I'm seldom disappointed.

There are many truisms here on SI. One is that it's never just a kiss. The second is that cheaters lie... a lot. Before my dday, I though my wife was this amazingly moral person. Nope. Turns out she just fronted that and really was a selfish cheater who was able to do despicable things.

We all want to think we married the right person, got one of the few remaining good ones. When we find out we didn't, it can shake us to our foundation. It destroys that paradigm through which we see the world and creates an existential crisis.

First. Cancel the MC. The marriage didn't cheat. She did. If she had cancer, would you both do chemo? She needs to figure out why she either betrayed her core values or lied about having them.

Second. Call the boss and fill him in. His employee is exposing his company to legal action. He needs to know the quality of the people who work for him.

Lastly, she is not some fragile flower, a damsel in distress who was seduced by yadda, yadda, yadda... This is the 21st century and that shit don't fly. You don't get to be a strong, independant woman who forges her own destiny one minute, and a weak damsel in distress the next. No one has ever seduced another human being. We don't have magic powers. My Ex tried this shit on me and it didn't wash. It just offloads responsibility onto another person and helps the cheater maintain the illusion that they are still a moral person.

I'm sorry you are here, but brace yourself for more information. She is still trying to control the narrative and minimize the damage. Good luck.

Edit. Just one more thought. If she doesn't consider a blow job crossing the infidelity line, ask her if it would be okay if you just popped out for a quick one since it's no big deal. That should reset things for her. She vowed fidelity on your wedding day. She delivered much less.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 4:11 PM, Thursday, August 25th]