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So it is now 2 years and 2 months since D day. After a VERY slow start to my WW putting in effort she has begun. Still slowly but positive progress is still positive progress. Early on we really engaged in renewed sexual activity. I believe I read somewhere that is called Hysterical Bonding. Lately though, when we try to engage in sex, during the act images of her and her AP enter my head ins it’s lights out for passion. I also read in another book that a lot of times the role of the AP and spouse effectively swap places. I still feel now like I’m just a really good friend. I don’t feel like I’m her spouse or soulmate. This is all coming to fruition more as tomorrow is our 26th Wedding Anniversary which doesn’t really mean much to me anymore since she broke her vows and promises of commitment. Those words she said on that day 26 years ago really meant something to me.

We never really sat down and wrote out a timeline and I’m feeling like we should as I still wonder what, where, and how things progressed. There was a situation one fall day where she went to and historic City on the Ohio river with an old highschool friend (another girl) they took a bunch of pictures of sightseeing stops. Once when I was snooping early on after D day I saw her friend sent her a bunch of the pictures and my wife responded with "thanks for these, but these aren’t the pictures I want to see!" I asked her about this and she got really defensive and said "don’t I get any privacy?" She never did answer my query on that. I asked about it again a year later and she still just changed the subject. I’m thinking how can I really trust her if she can’t be 100% honest. Is all of this normal for me. Mostly asking about the feeling of being just a friend and the images re entering my head 2+ years later. Thank you all. I truly value your advice and support.

Your wife is being shady about the event min the fall in Ohio.

Not saying she cheated BUT when someone is shady there is something to hide.

Trust your gut. Always.

I’m not saying she cheated BUT something occurred on that trip she doesn’t want you to see or know about.

It could be something stupid or harmless. But without the truth you are left wondering.

Not good for a marriage. So sorry for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:03 PM, Tuesday, May 30th]

I'm sorry that you're dealing with all this, Coping. Infidelity and the continual fallout truly does suck.

I, too, have a wife whose movement towards effort was P A I N F U L L Y slow. You have remarkable patience and endurance.

I can't speak for everyone regarding the mind movies, but I do have a similar story to yours in the HB world, followed by intimate times that get 100% derailed by mind movies. Seems to me that it likely is normal to have that issue.

I also understand the deep frustration with this:

don’t I get any privacy?

The correct response is "not if you are serious about rebuilding any form of trust". The ball is left in her court with the reality of the depth of the betrayal squarely at her feet. If she is doing serious, positive work in herself, she can own the repercussions. If not, no great pressure in your lifetime overcome the lack of trust. There is a give and take, but SHE is the one who needs to do the heavy lifting to prove herself. You don't need to force yourself into another blind trust situation. We all know how that ended.

I don't like the whole "switching places with the AP" nonsense. Sounds like that book was written by someone incapable of describing what is REALLY going on emotionally. That whole "feeling more like a friend" piece...that is a feeling born out of self-preservation. You have built emotional walls of protection around yourself because it isn't safe to "come out and play". Your heart know that the last time you felt safe, you got brutally betrayed. So, rather than forcing yourself to go back out there meet on the playground to play again, SHE needs be be out there demonstrating that she is creating that safe place. It's the whole Charlie Brown & Lucy with the football. The heart wants to believe that she won't pull it out from under you, but the head says "well, she keeps doing it, so I'm not going to trust that I won't get hurt again." Because of that, we stay protected behind the wall, no longer intimately.connected emotionally.

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with protecting yourself. There is a REALLY good reason for that.

Brother, I have lived your life. This year marks year 29 of marriage for us. I stopped celebrating anything after year 23 (D-day v1.0 was 7 months before our 23rd anniversary).
No cards. No date planned. No fancy dinner. Nothing. I believed the vows I took, even though I was 19 on our wedding day. I believe in loyalty, fidelity, self-sacrifice. I beliwve in "'til death do us part." All of that was taken advantage of. So, August 6 is now nothing more than a date that is 2 weeks before my birthday. Nothing more, nothing less.

While my wife has made changes in herself, it took more than 5 years (and a REALLY good MC) to get that started. But it didn't truly happen until SHE decided that it was worth the effort.

That's a decision she has to make. You get to decide if you want to continue subjecting yourself to the person who deeply betrayed you. I don't say that to shame or to move you one way or another. It's just the reality of the situation. Only you know what you want/need in order for the relationship to return to thriving rather than merely surviving. We each have a role to play.

I would encourage you to take a long, honest look at yourself and what you want/need. Then have the conversation with her that sets guidelines/boundaries. There is nothing selfish with voicing your desires. The selfish part comes in when they aren't voiced, but you react negatively to their dismissal as though they were written on the wall and she saw them daily.

Make sure you're advocating for yourself. No one else will.

CaptainRodgers, those were some sell spoken(er, typed?) words. They were well put and described what I’ve been feeling to a tee. Damn, I would sure enjoy going out for a few beers with this group of unfortunates that we are all a part of. While I hate that we are in this group, the compassion I feel for others on this site make me feel like a great family.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 3:37 PM, Tuesday, May 30th]

TheFirstWife, I agree with you that it probably wasn’t cheating per se, but my gut says it’s something more akin to going to a male review and being a little risky or something. While I won’t rule out something more serious the not knowing at all really eats away at any gains in trust that she may have been gaining.

As the ws, and six years out from an affair, there would never be a time where it wouldn’t be okay for h to look at something at my phone and ask about it and get a truthful answer.

After such a catastrophic breach of trust, your wife is not seeing her role as the rebuilder. There are articles in the healing library on what a good rebuilder looks like.

While I can appreciate a girls trip may not be taken off the table forever, the fact she went and didn’t make it all transparent speaks volumes. You can’t reconcile with someone who is remorseless. Sounds like she instead has gotten back in the slippery slope she was on two years ago. It doesn’t even matter if it turns out to be innocent her actions here speak volumes.

My first girls trip was four years out and it was with my daughters and their friends for a bachelorette weekend for one of them. I texted everything we were doing, FaceTimed, anything to help him not feel anxiety. Did he request this? No. I know the damage I caused him and I care enough about him to show him intentionally that is not going to happen again.

I think asking for a timeline, for her to go to therapy, and future transparency is generous of you. Because if my husband (who also cheated) pulled what you describe, I would point blank ask for a divorce. Period.

Hikingout, I just to clarify in case we have a miscommunication, the girls weekend trip was in the fall of 2020 when she was starting her relationship with her AP. This wasn’t a recent turn of events. She has read "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" and she recently just finished "Not just friends". Since reading those she has had a different attitude. She tells me how much she truly appreciates my candor in handling the affair, she said she can’t understand how I have stayed with her but she is thankful that I have. She admitted that she acted very selfishly the first two years, and she apologized for it. Has she been a model remorseful wayward spouse. No, not in my eyes, but she is showing signs of progress. As long as there is continued progress and she addresses things that really bother me I’ll continue working towards the place I hope we’ll wind up. It’s just that now I do things that make me happy and they don’t have to include her.

No timeline, many question unanswered, defensive and avoiding = false reconciliation, in my book.

If you require certain information, she should be providing it to the best of her ability. Period.

I apologize- I misunderstood your post!

It is normal for you to focus on you, and that is what you should be doing! Sorry for my misunderstanding!

It is only two or three months since she threw your journal away. Just took it upon herself to decide you don't need the thoughts, feelings, and insights you were pouring into it! That is NOT a long time, but it seems from your posts that the event really smacked you upside the head and gave you the strength to turn away from loving her and toward loving yourself, yes? It allowed you to see how selfish she continued to be? And THEN, as so frequently (but not always) happens, she got scared as shit and started putting in some real effort to fix this M??? Is this correct, in your view?

If so, then from what I commonly read here, what you are feeling is very normal. Once you stop the panic and terror and trying to control the outcome, once you start sitting with your true, injured, wounded feelings and letting them be, once you start being really good to yourself, well . . . a depression of clarity washes over you, and you start to ask yourself, "Who is this person? Do I even want her?" And the hard questions come, the anger comes, the rose colored glasses disappear. You are in a new state of recovery and reconciliation where you are no longer worried about keeping the M and are instead wondering if you even WANT the M.

My advice? Don't worry about the answers, and just focus on processing the feelings and asking all the right questions. Yes, get a timeline! Of course! It's time. Get answers on that river trip, and if she is defensive, you have nothing to work with. You KNOW this. You are now emotionally prepared to ask the right questions. Don't run away from your thoughts and feelings. Don't put a bandaid on the sadness.

You are only at two years, and you are just beginning the non-emergency phase. This is an important time to be selfish, to find out what you need to know, to give yourself the time and grace to process those truths and feelings and decide if you want to R with this person. Only you can know that, and it doesn't seem you will know tomorrow. That's fine. This is about you and getting your questions answered properly. Your WW has done a lot of damage with her two years of "I'm the prize!" That will be hard to process and will add to your recovery time. Doesn't mean you can't work through it. You'll have to see.

This is YOUR time to heal. Ask for what you need. Sit with your feelings. It hurts, but on the other side is acceptance and clarity.

P.S. Are you in IC? It would be helpful, especially as you decide if the "friendship feelings" are a you problem or a her problem. I'm honestly not sure; could be either. They could be your wounded perceptions or her lack of investment.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:58 AM, Wednesday, May 31st]

My OPINION (notice the emphasis), cheaters who seek and work for reconciliation should only expect privacy while using the toilet and grooming, and those activities should be done without their phone if the betrayed spouse prefers. Privacy other than that should be up to the BS and their comfort level. A remorseful cheater should have nothing to hide. I suspect your wife is hiding something.

Update: while is wasn’t really a timeline, more perspective was placed in the timeframe of the affair. She had admitted it was a long time before he made the move towards a kiss and making it more physical. She said for 4 or 5 months they just talked about daily life and topics that interests them. (My guess is he was gathering information about her to gauge her level of vulnerability, he is after all a repeat offender of infidelity against his wife, as in at least 3 times folks know of). She said when he leaned in and kissed her she was shocked, and that had put her off balance. From there the feelings of being desired took over and well, for you WS’s out there, I’m guessing you know how this went. As for the river trip, she said nothing happened. They went to Marietta and did some sightseeing that day. She doesn’t remember her friend sending her the pictures from the trip and her response of “those aren’t the pics I want to see" it could be a funny story that was brought up on the trip and my wife simply joking that she’d like to see the pictures of said told story, it could also be a lie and pics of them at a strip club, but my gut and I believe what she’s telling me. She has lately been telling me that she can’t lose me, that she could lose every friend she has and would be happy if only I was in her life, that I am her best friend. She’s been dwelling on our future plans together and how happy she is for that. As I mentioned in prior posts, progress is progress, and I see that as a positive as to why I want to continue my life with her. Aside from the brief affair, we do complement each other extremely well, and that’s not something that I can just Willy nilly throw away.

On a side note, she did mention seeing a change in me that does worry her sometimes. I told her what she has been seeing is me taking back my life the way that I want to live it, living it the way that it makes me happy. I’m taking back control of my belief system, my moral compass. She’s learning now that she will have to rise to my basic moral standards for a future with me because damn it, I’m a decent human being. I care more for others than I do myself. There’s a new country singer, and I can’t remember her name, that my wife has been listening to, but there’s a line in a song she likes that essentially says her man is a strong hard man with a heart of gold, every time she hears that she tears up because she said it remands her of me. That felt good to hear. I’ll leave this long post here as I’m going to go work on a crane and get my mind onto something outside of this. Thank you all for your ears and understanding.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 10:02 AM, Monday, June 5th]

Our stories are similar in some ways. My husband had a six month affair with a coworker (in his case there were LOTS of I love yous).

We had a lot of hysterical bonding sex/connection after Dday, but just like in your case, slowly the reality of the affair and the damage done by it settled in. I also started struggling with picturing the two of them during sex, feeling insecure and inadequate, and switching to plainer, more hurried, less frequent lights out sex. At the two year mark I felt much like you describe. I wasn’t in hyper alert pain and trauma mode anymore, and we were best friends and got along great (always have), but the old spark just wasn’t there, or at least not on a consistent basis.

I’m about three years out from Dday, and some of the spark is returning. It’s slower progress than I’d like, and our sex life is still blander and more inhibited than it was pre-affair, but as long as there’s progress I’m ok with it, even if it’s slow.

The main difference/red flag I see in your case is your wife’s attitude and behavior. Her throwing away your journal—that’s just terrible, man. I’m glad she’s doing some good reading, but getting defensive about her privacy is going to damage and stall your recovery. I agree that she needs to make a timeline, and I suspect she’s soft pedaled her disclosure and is still hiding a lot from you.

[This message edited by Grieving at 12:18 PM, Monday, June 5th]