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Bs - do you all ever give silent/secret ultimatums? It goes something like this, "if my WS does XYZ one more time, or doesn't do this by XYZ by XYZ, it's over"!

I'm finding myself doing this repeatedly, and when WS does "it" again, I say something to myself along the lines of, "Well you didn't verbalize that so it's unfair to expect it."

Talk about crappy mind games I'm playing with myself!

My current one is, "One month to get a polygraph scheduled at some point in the future, or it's over" but I never really gave that ultimatum verbally. They know I want a poly to feel some basis of trust. I guess maybe I am hoping my WS will do the work on their own w/o the reminders, and then when they don't I get too afraid to stick to my boundaries.

It's exhausting. Thanks for listening to my random thoughts of the day.

edited for terrible spelling and grammar

[This message edited by lessthinking at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, May 29th]

Next time you think of one, just say it. Let the chips fall where they may. I’m guilty of kicking the can down the road as much as the next guy. As patience grows thinner, I find it easier to just say what I’m feeling.

A silent ultimatum is the only ultimatum worth making because you can always change your mind or back down from it.

But if you actually say, "If you do/don't X then I'll do Y!" and fail to follow through, you will immediately lose respect and credibility.

Agree with BTB it is better they are silent especially if you are not ready to follow through on it.

I agree - never give an ultimatum aloud unless you really mean it.

I sometimes don't say anything to my H and just wait to see what he will do in certain scenarios. It's information gathering.

Not much to add, blue nailed it.

If you say it out loud, I would recommend considering a time frame that isn’t a knee jerk one. You are going to tell yourself stories about his adhd and executive functioning. Instead, make sure that you feel comfortable with the time frame and you have both reviewed the plan and its timeline. This is for your benefit, not really his but it probably will work better for both of you.

I think this is coming from the reality that you are just done and over it but your heart isn’t there yet. Your mind is making up these scenarios because you want relief. It’s natural. Especially given all your circumstances (first love, lack of other relationship experiences, being able to hobble along in this marriage a long time despite some of the things that make him hard to be married to- not referencing the affair but that’s been the toppling over)

Yes, I did this too. And yes, I broke my own unverbalized "rules" too frequently to count. One of the things my therapist said to me over and over again was that if I had a hard and fast rule, requirement, whatever you want to call it - no matter how pissed off I was and how slighted I felt or how I felt that in comparison to my WH's total lack of morality that my moral high ground required a telescope to see it - that I was setting myself up for repetitive disappointment by not verbalizing what I needed. And, that I could not expect my WH to abide by something, even if it seemed "obvious" to me, unless I said it out loud to him (I have learned this to be true - things that seem obvious to me are sometimes head scratchers to him - we think very differently and are upset by very different things a lot of times).

But, here's the kicker (and where I am going to suggest that you might really be). She also said:

Perhaps I had not said these things out loud to my WH - the ultimatums, because I was not ready to actually enforce them.

I think my therapist was onto something. Yes, I agree with Blue in that had I said the ultimatums out loud and then failed to enforce them, that lack of action would undercut the image I was trying to portray to my WH - that I was all business, when in reality, I was not. But, while she said it was okay to not be ready to enforce these ultimatums, that I was causing myself extra strife I did not need by feeling shitty about me for NOT enforcing them (and berating myself for not being the anti-infidelity-badass I so wanted to be), that I was likely better served thinking about why I had not said them out loud, and being honest with myself about what I was willing to put up with and why. Then the homework: to make a list of what I actually wanted my WH to do, and what my badass-superhero-self would do if that want did not happen - side by side against the honest, what I would likely do (or what I had been doing) if my want did not occur. Then, to think about why there was such a difference between them? And what, in lieu of "I'm done" was I going to do when one of my wants/needs from the list did not happen. What was the alternative?

Then finally to make a list of what I absolutely must have - and what I would do if I didn't get it. What on my list meant I was done - 100% done and over, if anything. My final list was super short as it turned out...it contained "end the A or I'm leaving" and that was really it. The rest of his shitty moods, dismissive bullshit - at that time I knew I was wiling to stick it out through for awhile longer. The reality was there was very little I wasn't willing to endure. So then, the real, real, super-real question, was why?

This was NOT an easy process, and to be honest, I found myself feeling anonymously peer pressured into being a lot more bad ass than I was - by well meaning people on this site no less. Sounds so dumb in hindsight, but I didn't want to be the person on this site coming back and admitting time and time again the next bought of shitty behavior I endured from my WH, the next boundary I didn't enforce, the next "failure" to be that infidelity-badass I imagined myself as becoming. Give yourself a break - and then get honest with yourself. It's a scary step (or it was for me) but it did help me think about things more realistically.

Food for thought anyway...

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:07 PM, Wednesday, May 29th]

It’s called double secret probation.

An ultimatum, silent or not, that you do not follow through with is not an ultimatum at all. I'm actually not sure what it is other than perhaps an empty threat?

It might be better to just say what you mean and mean what you say.

I do the silent ultimatums too. I then realize now unfair I’m being to myself and them really to him..
For example I wanted my H to essentially be a mind reader after dday.

If my H doesn’t immediately do the dishes after dinner he doesn’t love me and is in fake R because after all he should want to do this because he loves me and wants to keep me.

Or

My H needs to make date night plans once a week and arrange child care.

Well dishes would sit and the weeks would go by.
My H instead of dishes would put on one of my fav movies and then ask me to sit with him or weeks would go by without date night bc he wanted to see the kids and do things with them. It almost makes me sick to acknowledge I was being unfair to him but really that I am being if at to myself. I let myself down when I expect things I don’t verbalize. He isn’t perfect and I know he’s trying but my expectations aren’t clear so therefore it’s like giving him a destination without a map? Then getting pissed off and let down when he gets lost, in the end it just hurts me.

Instead now I have tried to be more verbal with what I expect.

1. Tell me you love me and kiss me every am
Before work
2. Don’t put your hobbies before me or the kids.
3. Make dinner on Mondays or bring it home.
4. Try to stay away from these places because they trigger me.

I mean yes I’m like you, the stuff that I would think should come naturally sometimes just doesn’t… I remind myself even though he effed up hardcore he’s human and I can be pretty bossy and have silent expectations, my issues always thinking he should JUST KNOW. He actually had the same issue about me. Once we took the love language quiz I realized we both valued polar opposite things.

Idk if that makes sense but one 7 months out that’s all I got.

The ability to communicate feelings, dreams, needs and wants, etc. are kind of important in relationship I would think. Most people can't read minds, if any can at all.

I think that by not examining the root cause of those unspoken ultimatums and communicating the underlying feelings you are creating a negative feedback loop. Its kind of hard to meet a standard or goal that you don't know about. So he's going to constantly disappoint you without knowing why and that'll bred resentment in both of you eventually.

You should be able say " Hey, your not taking the steps that I require of you to show me that you are telling the truth and can be trustworthy going forward. There's a limit to how long I am willing to wait for you to meet these steps and once that limit has been reached I am done." You should be setting that expectation.

Besides, what has hiding things brought so far?

All excellent points. I think I have asked for what I need, it's been a little all over the place and consistent so I know that poses a challenge. A month ago I provided two names/numbers for examiners and asked that he schedule the exam because I feel confident that I will need that now to start towards any chance of R happening. He agreed, called a couple of times, played some phone tag, and then gave up.
Interestingly, he mentioned last night that he still needs to schedule it. Kind of asked if it was still important to me (early on I couldn't decide if I wanted it or not). I said yes it's still important if we will have a chance at R. So he left vms again.
I think I'll have a conversation about it tonight to be more direct. I was so directive for so many years so I've been trying to direct my own stuff now, focus on myself, and be more observant than hand-holding.

This weekend I leaned into the relationship more to see how I felt. More time together, more hugs, hand holding. I noticed when we were away on a day drive I felt more comfortable. Once we got back home my walls went up again. I want to enjoy it more, but I still almost shrink when he hugs me or love-bombs me. Now I question everything, wondering if he is just always performative now. It's been 10 months since DD, I know I know, early days still.