SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone, I’ve had a few recommendations on books for us Betrayed Spouses.
But does anyone have any recommendations for the Waywards please?

My H is having IC but he wants to do some more work himself between his sessions.
He’s looking into his "Whys", in particular why he didn’t feel any guilt during his LTA.
He seems to have completely compartmentalised his home life and his time with his OW, never feeling any remorse or regret about what he was doing, which he says scares the hell out of him looking back.
He does have a childhood trauma and other things that he’s talking to his counsellor about.

But any recommendations on books to help him further with this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

No guilt at all during a long term affair?

I seriously doubt a book can help him. He appears to be missing a chip in his DNA that includes the commitment to monogamy, respect and knowing right from wrong.

I’m not trying to be rude but these are very serious issues that really need intensive professional counseling.

I hope he can change and become a better person

I hate to say this, but as a fellow BW, hearing as I did that the one to whom you pledged your fidelity and your entire life admit to you openly that they never once felt even a twinge of conscience while deciding to break their public vow to God in front of everyone in your mutual lives...ummh ummh ummh....major, major red flag.

Rather than a book to read, I recommend that your WH look at his family of origin with his IC helping him do some memory recall digging, which may take a long time. I truly have come to see family patterns that repeat in this area, as happens in many other areas of family patterns.

Number one issue for my WH and the family he grew up in is a fundamental master-servant dynamic passed down from parent generation to child generation and entitlement of an attitude that "...men will roam while women stay home." Some of the answers to his brokenness are likely to be hiding in the history of his own parent's marriage. Kids see what happens and think it's how the world works.

I'm sorry.

He is in IC but wants to do more work in between his sessions.
He was always very close to his Mother but she died suddenly and unexpectedly when she was 41 and he was 13.
His Father was then a single parent, but my H spent most of his youth at his Friends houses instead of his own.
He is working through this period of his life with his counsellor. She suspects he never dealt with his Mother’s death and that is how he can box off and shut away his emotions - perhaps why he’s never felt any guilt?

Agree with the others - he is missing a slice out of his loaf (loaf being integrity)

For you - the "why" try:

Cheating in a Nutshell: What Infidelity Does to The Victim

I'm thinking it may give you something to look for if he fixes himself.

Oh I know what he’s done. And the damage he’s caused. And I’m well aware of how serious it is. I’m living it and trying to survive it every day.

But I really need to know his "Whys" - and so do both of my Sons.
Or at least know a part of it.

And I also know that we might not get those answers. But we need to try.
Hence why I’m asking for recommendations and something to assist and run alongside his IC.

I will be seeing my IC and also our MC this week—both of them have given me good book recommendations for my situation so I will pose your question to them about your husbands situation and let you know what they recommend. Good for you for trying to help him out, especially when he has put you through so much pain. I know how important it is for them to come to terms with their "why’s" and in the end this can only help you and your relationship, no matter what the outcome. Stay strong!!

Thank you SO much AlteredReality, I would really appreciate that! ❤️
I can see my H is trying hard to work on his whys, as he knows how important they are to us but also for him. Whatever happens in the future (we stay together or separate) me and my sons need something to help us move forwards but my H does too.
I have just this minute seen your reply to my other post and I am so pleased you’ve had a positive weekend - I will post tomorrow when I can reply properly as it’s bedtime here in the UK so I need to try and get some rest for a few hours! Take care and thank you again 🤗

I just did a quick internet search and this looks like it might be appropriate: Infidelity: why men and women cheat by Kenneth Paul Rosenberg MD. I don’t know anything about it but the description looked pretty good for your husband. I’ll let you know what info I can get from the therapists.

Thank you so much! Will check it out ☺️

I just want to say if his affair was just discovered in November, it is not that unusual he doesn’t feel anything about it yet. Ws spend a lot of time avoiding and numbing bad emotions. Telling themselves a lot of lies and justifications.

I didn’t tell for two months after the affair ended. I went to therapy immediately because I knew what I did wasn’t right but I mostly only felt pain over the affair ending. I worked my way to a confession, and while I felt ashamed, there was a lot repressed. I am not saying your husband does have the ability for empathy, but some of that judgment might be better rooted in examples of him having it or not having it prior to his affair.

I would describe the months after my affair as emotionally constipated. Other than the pain that was present due to the sudden stop of the adrenaline and dopamine, I was very numb. I would say I was dishonest in hiding that for some period from my husband, and I actually think him being honest about this is at least a good sign he is not hiding things from you.

I am not saying I know the answers about him or have a crystal ball on how this will turn out but it’s my beliefs the initial emotional reactions you see in the ws is shame of being caught.

I have never read any books that cleanly helped identify all my whys, moreso it was like peeling the layers of the onion and continued self introspection. The book that maybe helped me catch into things that spurred this on for me the most would be "Rising strong" by Brene Brown because it illuminated for me the things I had always done that blocked having true connections in my relationships. I could see that a lot of my characteristics from avoidance, to people pleasing, to fear of vulnerability kept me from the thing most of us want more than anything.

I had to also realize that I didn’t have a strong sense of values that someone with good character might have. I had been taught right or wrong but didn’t have strong investments in some of those areas where I might have to prioritize them over quick fixes for my immediate happiness. I also didn’t realize that my people pleasing had these dark parts to it. That I was actually trying to manipulate others into seeing me a certain way. That over time I lost a sense of self.

I also needed better coping skills.

Generally, we spend a lot of time justifying our behavior that we know is wrong and destructive, he will have to unwind what those things were: it could be things like blaming you and the marriage,l because those resentments kept him from feeling guilt. A brene Brown says when we numb our feelings we don’t get to choose which ones, it’s all of them- the hood and the bad ones. Do it long enough and you can present like a narcissist even if you aren’t one.

Though, I am not saying your husband isn’t one or does have empathy, I am just making an argument as to why I don’t think right now it’s abnormal or unheard of. I have watched many ws land here like that when this site was more active and we had new people coming every week.

Thank you HikingOut, I really do appreciate your honest perspective.
As the weeks have passed since November, I can really see that my H is understanding the hurt and pain he has caused. And I am really seeing his emotions come out now.
His absolute concern is how he has never felt any guilt (or felt the need to stop the A) for all these years. He said he has never been emotionally invested in the OW. So he could completely box her off when he wasn’t with her.
Which is why, he thinks, he never felt any guilt when he was with me. Like I say, he is currently working on this in his IC sessions.

My husband did the exact same thing—completely compartmentalized their relationship so it never bled over into ours. Supposedly didnt even consciously think about how it would hurt me or damage us because I was never supposed to know. He did say he felt guilty when he was with her at times, to the point that he couldn’t even kiss her some days. Gee that makes me feel so much better (sarcasm in case that wasn’t obvious). But he was never feeling that strong guilt around me since, again, I was never going to know and what I didn’t know wouldn’t hurt me I guess. I just don’t get how anyone can do that—if the situation were reversed I would never have been able to hide my guilt from him like that. I bet our husbands would have a lot in common if they ever got together—maybe it would be therapeutic for them. And my husband has no childhood trauma to blame any of this on. Just the trauma of almost dying from a heart attack last thanksgiving (2023) that made him realize life is short and he shouldn’t deny his feelings. 🤮. But we are somehow moving on from all this, which is a miracle in itself. To paraphrase something I saw in another post on this site, we don’t have to offer grace, but we are. We don’t owe a second chance, but we’re giving one. That is our choice. At least we have power over our choices going forward. It’s good to feel like we have power over something for a change.

[This message edited by Alteredreality at 2:38 PM, Tuesday, January 28th]

I think our Husbands would definitely have a lot to talk about if they got together!
My H didn’t think about anything it would seem.
He never thought that the OW could have demanded that he leave me for her. And that, if he refused, she could have told me.
He never thought that I could have noticed something (called his workplace to find him not there for example) and found out.
And he never thought about the harm and upset it would cause me (and our sons) and how it would damage our lives. Because he never thought I would find out.
But now I have found out, and he’s seen me at my lowest, he is getting it and waking up to what he’s done.
Out of the few people we’ve told, none of them would have suspected him capable of doing this - and for all these years.
They are all as shocked and upset as I am.
And I can see the pain in him now that he has had this realisation of the harm he’s caused.

Same here—the few friends I have told have been totally shocked, even his best friend (who he only told after everything blew up) could not believe he would do this. And after seeing all the pain and destruction his actions caused, he is feeling so devastated and angry with himself for causing it. I believe this is why you and I are staying and working so hard to salvage our relationships. We see how affected they are and how they did not ever want this to happen. Lots of stupidity on their part but whatever. If you had asked me before all this if I would stay if something like this happened, it would have been a hard NO. But once you’re in it, everything is different. That’s why I sought out this site and happily found you, because I wanted to talk to someone who could really understand. My friends are supportive but they haven’t been through anything like this. I actually have thought about talking to her husband but haven’t done that yet as I’m not sure I want to open up that line of communication. He really went crazy on my husband when this came out. Anyway, take care and hope things continue to work themselves out.

I feel exactly the same. Prior to finding this out, if anyone had asked me what I’d do in this situation I’d have replied "Kick him out immediately and file for divorce".
But, like you say, when you’re actually living it, it is a totally different thing.

I look back on my life with him and remember a Husband who has always supported me, cared for me, loved me, and been a really hands on and involved Dad. He was either at work or at home and rarely went out with friends (but little did I know the affair was happening when he was at work or I thought he was at work).

But now I’ve found out, he’s doing absolutely everything (and more) that is suggested on this site.

If it had been a shorter affair, I know most people on this site would be recommending reconciliation. I know it’s the amount of time my Husband’s A went on for that’s the problem.

But I see him hurting. I see him desperately soul searching and taking his IC sessions so seriously. So can I just walk away from him because of the time frame? Some would say yes, I know.

By the way, I have confronted the OW. Via text. I needed to let her know that I finally know.
And I felt incredibly empowered when I did it. Told her exactly what I thought of her but in a very calm and classy manner. I was determined to remain better than her.

I’ve seen photos on social media of her. Omg she’s a mess. I have absolutely NO idea what my H ever saw in her and everyone I show the photos to say the same.

She doesn’t live locally now (thankfully) and I’m not aware that she’s with anyone.
She has been divorced herself twice (prior to meeting my H) and my H seems to think she’s remained single while the A went on.
It seems she liked the arrangement and was happy to just wait around for the odd time my H was able to meet with her. More fool her I think!
What woman does that for years and never demands anything of the man?

He said they never went anywhere together. Just met for sex and chat. Never met any of her friends or family. For all those years. He never bought her anything or spent any money on her either. Very strange situation all round.

In my case the OW was kind of a business partner with my H. I met her several times over the years. She is 5 years younger than me, prettier I think and a very smart and likeable person. Wish she wasn’t but that’s the case. The way he tells it, they worked well together and started connecting a lot on other things as well, their friendship got deeper and they started texting/talking a lot. Things stayed friendly for a couple years, with feelings gradually getting stronger until the end of 2023 when they decided to give into the feelings they were having and just hope it would resolve itself since neither one wanted to end their marriages. They only ever met in their private office and never went anywhere else together, just like your H. This past October they were deciding to end the physical stuff and just go back to being work partners when her H found all the texts on her phone and blew everything up so my H had to come clean with me. The really sad part is that he still cares for her, has lost her as a friend, business partner and everything else, and there was never any closure for them. So I have to deal with him having those feelings on top of everything else.

And in regard to your other post, you absolutely don’t need to worry about what other people think you should do in your situation. The only one going through your situation is you, and no one else can know what it’s like for you. I feel like my H’s affair was so much longer than what people would think of as a "forgivable" amount of time, and the strong emotional component makes it so much worse, but, like you, I see how sorry he is for the pain I am going through and how much he wants us to work. Sure I wish he had thought about all this before doing anything, but that didn’t happen. And yes your husband deceived you for an incredible amount of time, but betrayal is betrayal no matter how long and it’s up to us to choose the path that works for us. You don’t just stop loving someone because they hurt you, and you don’t just throw away years together when there is still something that is worth saving. You are showing amazing strength by wanting to stay and do the necessary work especially when parts of you are probably screaming to run away as fast as you can. And who knows what the future will bring and whether we will end up leaving our H’s in the end, but at least we will know we tried and didn’t just give up because it hurt too much.

You’re absolutely right. If we do end up separating from our H’s at least we know we tried. That will help both of us to move on with our lives, should that ever happen.

My H says he has found it easier to cut the OW out of his life because she isn’t local and he hasn’t seen her for 6 years. The physical side ended 6 years ago so it’s just been texts and phonecalls since then.
He said they "got on" but that he didn’t have a deep connection to her.

I sometimes wonder whether she became more of a friend in his life over the last 6 years. He has very few male friends. Lots of acquaintances but only a couple of friends who he would meet for a beer occasionally. Hardly any family his side so my family became his.
We have always spent a lot of time together. My counsellor wonders whether that’s why he started the affair in the first place, she was someone just for him and separate from me? Who knows.

I will see if his IC helps him to search for his Whys and find out what he needs to change within himself. As long as I can see him working on this, I’m prepared to stay in the marriage for now. One day at a time.