SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven’t been on here for a long time, but I have this new numbness and doneness that’s come over me years later.

tbh with myself the betrayal was always an underlying current, a red flag I ignored in favor of the feelings that came from the love bombing because, dang that feels so good.

We are a decade post most major affair and 5 years post the 2nd major affair and while I do believe the infidelity had stopped, now I’m in a state of "I went through all of that trauma for this?"

Sex has dwindled to a quarterly event. Kisses and deep hugs are rare, I’ve stopped asking for my needs in these regards to be met over and over, so it just all stopped.

I had a breakdown, clinical burnout, that had me unemployed by choice for 6 months. I returned to work one year ago, to a supportive job. The whole time I was careening toward burnout, I couldn’t help but realize, I was susceptible to the toxic work environment because my self esteem is absolutely trashed.

I ran myself ragged making sure his environment was as good as it could be, became severely codependent, and in reality, he barely asked me to stay.

I asked for what I needed, I was clear. I wanted a new proposal, I wanted a recommitment with new vows. I asked for less mental load (with specific examples), and I absolutely begged to feel wanted.

I hit perimenopause, I was diagnosed with ADHD, I’m just so tired and for what? This? I don’t like this, this isn’t the life I want and I’ll be damned if this bare minimum relationship was worth the trauma.

I’m just frozen, I almost want him to cheat now to make the decision easy.

Wife I hear you.

You don’t need him to cheat to make a decision, your emotional state is already telling something really important about how you truly feel.

You don’t feel coming across as healed from the trauma and as a woman who regained her agency and put herself first, I have the impression you have been containing the pain for long, because it is a state that resemble what I know so well.

The fact you are posting in divorce and not in general suggests to me your feelings are looking for an outlet away from the pain.

Is your WS not initiating physical intimacy, did I get that right?

I feel that you have already identified all the red flags 🚩
And now you need to be heard.

Anytime sister, do not keep it in.

You have been heard

Confused, I think one of the toughest parts of making the call to divorce is that bit of guilt about "giving up" on R, especially if things are kinda, sorta, good enough on the surface of things.

It sounds like you have given R your all, and he hasn't reciprocated. There's no expiration date on deciding to divorce. Sometimes it takes 5 or 10 years, and that's okay. You're 41. That's probably less than half your life. You know what the future is going to look like if you stay frozen. What might it be if you take the plunge?

@BackfromtheStorm, he doesn’t initiate and it isn’t the lack of sex, it is the intimacy, the hugs, the deep kisses, the dances, the looks, feeling desired vs. feeling like a middle aged creature. It is feeling like I deserve it that I miss.

I’ve talked, I’ve given specific examples, I’ve led by example, I’m so tired. Each time I’ve brought up the discussion it improves, just enough for me to stop talking about it, and as soon as Intrust it, poof. A finished effort each time with me expressing how grateful Inam for the crumbs.

The issue I have that keeps me frozen is that he truly doesn’t seem to understand, he’s level 1 autistic so it really just doesn’t appear to compute. But, I can’t be clearer and I’ve read everything out there on hownto communicate. It is slowly killing me. BUT, if you ask me, I will say it is fine.

I look back through my memories and see a lot of me gaslighting myself.

@BackfromtheStorm, he doesn’t initiate and it isn’t the lack of sex, it is the intimacy, the hugs, the deep kisses, the dances, the looks, feeling desired vs. feeling like a middle aged creature. It is feeling like I deserve it that I miss.

I’ve talked, I’ve given specific examples, I’ve led by example, I’m so tired. Each time I’ve brought up the discussion it improves, just enough for me to stop talking about it, and as soon as I trust it, poof. A dimished effort each time with me expressing how grateful I am for the crumbs.

The issue I have that keeps me frozen is that he truly doesn’t seem to understand, he’s level 1 autistic so it really just doesn’t appear to compute. But, I can’t be clearer and I’ve read everything out there on hownto communicate. It is slowly killing me. BUT, if you ask me, I will say it is fine.

I look back through my memories and see a lot of me gaslighting myself.

You know, even before you mentioned his autistic traits, from your description of the M, I already recognized you're having similar struggles to mine with my SAWH who is on the spectrum and/or diagnosable with PD. (personality disordered). With us, the "M" has always "Looked OK" from the outside to others, which is the really baffling part. I've come to understand those feelings of emptiness I get are where I keep expecting an actual partner would show up, but the autistic cannot "do" this kind of connection well. Thinking of "the other as of one's self" seems like a bridge too far for them, for some reason.

Then as time goes on, the deficit of loving emotions accumulates in spouses attempting to stay M to an autistic who won't work on any issues. I'm not convinced they even CAN and that is a very reluctant conclusion I've had to come to after 23 years of false R. Although I did once meet an autistic husband, the father of 3 autistic children, who confessed openly - in front of his Special Ed teacher wife! - that he knew he has a problem, and he acknowledged honestly to me that it is a problem. (He was trying to make me feel better about my SAWH's diagnosis.) But that is exceptional; I rarely have experienced that self-insight from my H. So what you have might be all you can expect. . And perimenopause makes everything more difficult.

If you want to make a little more effort, I'll share what my W does with me sometimes. She tells me exactly what she want to hear and asks my to say it. Doing something like that - for example, 'Hug me and focus on me while you do it' - might get you what you want.

I know that sort of direction seems unlikely to do much of anything, but it works for my W.

Also, I offer this only as something you can try, if you want to. I am by no means suggesting that you do it if you don't want to.

You're half my age, less than 1/3 of the way through adulthood if you have an average lifespan. That's a lot of years, and I hope they turn out to be good ones. You do not have to stay with your H. I assume you know that, since you're posting in D/S.

I'm sorry you're suffering. I hope you find a good way out of suffering, whatever that may be.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:27 PM, Thursday, April 16th]

She tells me exactly what she want to hear and asks my to say it.

I did this for years, did it become habit for your W? I state my needs very clearly and specifically. Clarity is kindness, as they say. Verbal in the moment, bullet pointed lists with specific examples. I’m tired, he has lists, basically his email is a user manual for meeting my needs.

Then as time goes on, the deficit of loving emotions accumulates in spouses attempting to stay M to an autistic who won't work on any issues. I'm not convinced they even CAN and that is a very reluctant conclusion I've had to come to after 23 years of false R.

I think this is what keeps me frozen, he does "try," but each time I accept less and less effort. Right after our last conversation about how I feel and how much I’m struggling we went to a movie about a failing marriage. I was concerned about the content given it was just days after this conversation. He came out of it talking about how lucky we are. He was totally sincere, he truly believes things are wonderful unless I’m actively and visibly upset.

I understand. It gets to be a "sentence" trying to educate someone who can't or won't carry over any particular theme from one situation to the next. I just dealt with this yesterday. And I really wish it didn't bother me but after almost 30 years....you would think. But that's where we are not getting it, I fear. They just aren't able to reflect and apply what they learned in one specific situation to another. This actually came from the Special Ed teacher whose husband I met. She said what is baffling to us is how such a person can be so brilliant in one situation (shine and do very well) but fail to carry over the principle learned to the next situation. I wish I had more info to give but that sort of summed up what I'm dealing with and sounds like you, too.

Two questions:

Was he ALWAYS like this and it was acceptable to you SO LONG AS HE WAS STEADY EDDY AND FAITHFUL? (I was like that.)

And then, do you think if he hadn't cheated this behavior would bother you quite so much, seeing him never "get it"?

Superesse put a good question to find answers.

I can say that unless this is very specific for him as a trait he always had, me and every guy I know in person need physical intimacy in order to get to emotional intimacy.

I don’t mean intercourse which is what is generally considered as sex, because I consider the whole men/woman interaction as sex, holistically.

There’s a galaxy of variations of physical intimacy, as in with emotional.

To me your emotions are telling something clear, you want a man who can meet you there, you seem tired of waiting and pulling, and I get it, attraction should be like gravity, effortless.

You are putting effort like the polarity is dead, and seems like ultimately your polarity is ready to orient somewhere else.

You are still young enough to find that. Unpleasant to hear but if he leaves you no choice you should not preclude you from making some yourself and deny you the happiness you deserve.

There’s billions of people out there, your man is the one you once put on top, but I’d say he is ranking pretty low right now, and demanding you sink with him.

His choice. But you got yours.

did it become habit for your W?

Yes. It takes a while, but I generally can associate signals with messages, once she tells me what she wants to hear. That means I don't need to be asked too many times for a specific message. We change over time, though, and she asks for new messages as she figures out what she wants to hear.

She asks, by the way. I tend not to respond when she tells me she needs something. A request is due a 'yes/no/later' response.

That may sound nasty. It's not. Asking for what one wants is empowering, as is knowing one has a choice when asked.

Was he ALWAYS like this and it was acceptable to you SO LONG AS HE WAS STEADY EDDY AND FAITHFUL? (I was like that.)

No, he saved a fortune he got the first time we had Chinese food, framed it and gave it to me for our first Christmas we lived together. He would play music and ask me to dance. He would play his guitar and sing to me.

I don’t think it would bother me as much if I wasn’t healing from infidelity trauma on top it. It would be different and feel more intentional knowing he had the capacity to understand and extrapolate.

@sisoon, you give excellent advice, I have tried all those things. Read up on autism and how it presents in relationships. I’ve completely altered my communication style, given time and space for processing, asked consent before hard topics. Learned to be extremely clear. I’m not perfect or free of issues, but doesn’t appear to matter how clear I am or how many times and ways I express my needs, it just doesn’t happen, it is like there is a block.

I get these tiny scraps of the person I fell in love with, I get hopeful, then poof. He’s a good roommate. Our life is peaceful as long as I don’t bring up my needs. Time is just ticking away.

Wife, it seems like you had his affection before and the instincts tell you this change is tied to the betrayal.

Attention, dancing and those little things that are normal coupe life were there, and now they aren’t.

This is my feeling from what you shared:

I don’t think it would bother me as much if I wasn’t healing from infidelity trauma on top it. It would be different and feel more intentional knowing he had the capacity to understand and extrapolate.

Feels like you sense a connection between the lack of intimacy and betrayal really strongly, but you are questioning your gut instinct at the same time.

I think your instincts are not to be dismissed if not just trusted outright.

I perceive you are almost excusing him, providing an explanation for his lacking using his autism and traits to tell yourself a story.

But you don’t fully believe that story yourself.

Maybe your instinct is actually spot on in raising you red flags but the work you did to reconcile want to shut it because the outcome might not be what it was desired or thought to have been achieved.

I would say that while the "logic" might check out in general, your man is not "autism" in general, as he was an individual with autism, but able to show you affection and intimacy before his betrayal.

So theory is fine, but doesn’t fully align with your lived reality.

And you put effort in letting him know, so is not even unspoken, you tried and were met with passiveness.

I am not your gut but I agree with it about spotting a red flag 🚩

I get these tiny scraps of the person I fell in love with, I get hopeful, then poof. He’s a good roommate. Our life is peaceful as long as I don’t bring up my needs. Time is just ticking away.

What I feel here is you are hanging on breadcrumbs (like we all bs did back when…. The thing) of the memories you are attached to.

But I also feel a woman trapped into the masculine energy of trying to revive a polarity that she could feel no longer, you tried to act and fix and re establish the relationship gravity that is the core of healthy attraction, the force that would allow to relax in your feminine energy and return to the place where you felt happy with your man.

And I feel you do this because he is not present, so you are trying to be in both energies at the same time for both of you.

That sounds exhausting.

All you get is a good roommate, while you long for a man, your man, to show up and prove that you matter.

I understand this is going on for a while, is not a last minute thing, you come her to express a deep frustration, like after going through the trauma the healing and reconciliation you gave him an unwarranted second chance to show up for you as a man, while he seems to have settled in a comfort zone of forgiven roomie.

And you seem to clearly feel like this is not okay for your emotional health, this is not what you need, you are truly invested into something you are no longer receiving.

This seems all very transactional from his side. He got 5e comfort, got away with cheating, was forgiven, and now he can chill still not giving a crap about his wife.

You invest, he just cashes.

And you feel the time is ticking away, is not the life you want or the relationship you fought so hard for.

So if this is all transactional and he likes the roommates thing, ignore your efforts and keep letting you down, just give him what he wants, and give your self what you want.

Unlike him you don’t need to cheat. He needs straight forward approach.

If I was his wife and felt like that i imagine I would approach him somehow like this

My dear husband, I see you are ok to be roommates and not a loving, fulfilled couple. I accept that we do not value each other in the same way.

I do need love, attention and passion from my man, both physical and emotional, I need a person who can love me the same way I love him and can reciprocate in kind. You know I believed you to be that man, that’s why I chose you and that’s why I stood by your side no matter what, even when it took everything from me.

But I can’t lie to myself and betray myself any longer, because I must accept what I see and feel now.

You are no longer at, or interested to be by my side as husband and man.

You are here in body but your emotions are denied to me.

This is what I feel and see from you, if you truly feel like this then we should act like adults and accept the consequences.

I don’t hate you but I can’t force you to love me either, it is fine.

I have still love and all myself to give to someone who can value it as much as I do.

You don’t seem to be that man anymore and it’s okay, you d gave it up, just being a roommate, I respect your choice.

Let’s make it official.

But I didn’t give it up, I want to live a life that fulfills me. We can agree to be roommates for the time being. I don’t want to settle for that so I will be looking around for someone who wants to live the same life I long for.

We can go separate ways or stay roommates in this transition period.

When I find this man, we will change our arrangement and we both move on with our lives, the way we feel it makes us happy.

You don’t have to give me an answer now or react to this, take the time you need and see what you really want. be honest with yourself, you can then share it with me, or never mention it again.

But I will not keep living in a fantasy or a lie just for your peace and comfort.

It is your choice, I am resolved to make mine, but I am also offering you one. Again.

Your call.

I am a dude and not a girl but more or less this is what I’d do if I were in your shoes.

I think you are unhappy and he is either lazy, uncaring or just still in his old game.

If not that should put pepper in any man’s ass. And maybe he does wake up and get his shit together.

Unlike him, you don’t have to betray, you don’t have to lie, you are not taking away his choice, if he wants to be in a relationship with you or not.

But sure as hell you are not allowing him to take away the choice of being happy in your life again

He already did it once.

Fool me twice….

His fucking choice, man or slob. You did more than enough here sister.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 2:25 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

I can relate to many of the things you describe. I feel for you. And like you, at the end of the M I thought to myself that it would be better if he cheated again to make my decision easy. For better or for worse, within a few weeks of my thinking that thought, he was caught in another affair and I ended the marriage immediately.

You've gotten a lot of good advice about not needing to wait for him to cheat again to take agency in your own life. It sounds to me like you already have the clarity you need about the fact that you're not asking for the impossible in this relationship. You're just asking for reciprocity that he either can't or won't offer. You might consider whether you've outgrown a spouse who sees your emotional needs as unreasonable or not worth attending to.

And like others have said, if you chose D, you have a long life ahead of you. How would your life be different if you were in a relationship with someone who matches your emotional bandwidth?

You've been heard, and this community is here for you.

So far no one has suggested this, but the thought came to me that if he happens to have a (usually well-hidden) porn habit that has taken the place of his natural desire for his wife, well, that is infidelity. I happen to think porn IS infidelity, period. But my SAWH had this problem before we met, all unbeknownst to me...and after our marriage, he returned to it in pretty short order. It was his connection to his history of visiting prostitutes, also unknown to me. Absolutely NO ONE could believe it when all this came out, everyone of our friends and family members were stunned....like "Not HIM of all people!"

I learned too late that secretive visual sexual stimulation dovetails nicely with an autistic's tendency for minimal emotional involvement. Plus, a well-known effect of frequently watching pornography is real-life sex with the familiar partner becomes less interesting. Why that is is a mystery but some think it's because the brain learns the high they get from the porn is predictable and not as messy as a real relationship...that is, until they need to escalate to viewing riskier stuff to get the same kick. If that is his reason for treating you in this dismissive way after he cheated repeatedly, then you likely don't have much to work with. I'm sorry.

You are younger than I was when I met this man, and please know you deserve a much different daily life. Sure, being single is no guarantee you will find the right partner on your timeline, but you already can tell what the timeline looks like with this man.

You deserve to get what you need.

And if you are unhappy and unfulfilled, it might be time to consider a D.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:18 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

@superesse

This is interesting and I do understand it like this:

You have a relationship and you invest your own energy, emotional and physical, desires and feelings, in it.

When this energy is not pourers inside, there is a problem that must be addressed for it to flow back.

When the energy is transferred outside, towards a different partner or object (then even porn addiction) you are not simply not investing but intentionally depriving your partner of it to benefit something else. And you deny it and lie to your partner about it too.

This is cheating.
You are correct