SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

YouTube: The Wrong No Contact by Knowing the Narcissist

Wow, so needed to hear this right now. I blocked his number but have been wondering how to deal with genuine emergencies with the kids if they arise. This video gives great advice on how to deal with this.

I told him off about 4 days ago. He’s already trying to Hoover me back in l. I didn’t think it would be so quick since he has new supply. He just asked me to go out to dinner with him and the kids. Wow! So glad i’ve been doing my research and not falling for this.

Would it be possible to have a thread for BPD as well?

Sadone: When you said that you were in survival mode while in-house separation and now it's hitting you all at once, it really rang a bell for me. I had been doing that for years. He would go overseas for months for business, come back over and over again. I thought I could do it because of the kids. Now, I'm trying to save money to D him because the kids are grown, and I've been triggering like crazy the past month. I keep getting angry at myself as to why I put up with so much for so long.

I feel NPD is a spectrum. There are quite a few full blown NPDs, but I also feel that many people are dealing with a spouse who may be exhibiting a lot of NPD, BPD, PD TRAITS, and may not be full blown. That is also hard, because they can act "normal" at times and then the traits come out strong.

Something to note that I found interesting. Son #4 was diagnosed with ADD. For years we helped him cope with going from not focusing (helping him refocus) and hyperfocusing on things.

One day, his older brother says to me, "I think Dad has some ADD too. He does a lot of things that my brother does."

I started to observe better, and the things like WH picking up the phone to call someone while I'm in the middle of a sentence, which I took to be insensitive and selfish, were more ADD characteristics. I talked to WH about it, and he said he was sorry that he thought of calling someone at work and felt if he didn't do it right away he'd forget. I told him to just say that to me and I'd understand, and he does now.

BUT

Although having ADD traits, is added to traits that are definitely NPD or BPD, so we have a lovely mix.

I don't know if he's completely NPD, but he has enough traits that can cause crazy making. The damage has been done to me, and I wonder if I'll ever get over it.

Hi, honesttoafault, if your husband does this moving on while you are still talking, continue to observe if it happens mostly when the subject is your relationship, or if he always does it, no matter what you are talking about.

My WS may be ADD too, and like you, it really annoys me because it is intrinsically disrespectful. And my WS doesn’t do this with other people, that I have ever seen, just me. On some level, he is making a choice, even if he doesn’t get that his choice is rude. I heard the same thing about not wanting to forget to do something....yeah, maybe. Maybe not....

It may be that he is doing what they call Dissociating from his mental attention to a topic he finds uncomfortable, using a kid-like disappearing act while appearing to continue to listen to you. I call him on it, every time, now. He has to learn to be fully present when I ask for his full attention, or else walk out of the room. He is a grown man now, not a helpless little kid who can’t get away from Mean Mommy. Whew, they are so stuck.

I am reading a good book on trauma and childhood abuse as a factor in disordered personalities. The Body Keeps The Score, by van den Kolk. Lots of possible explanations for this crazy behavior.

How does someone withe NPD behave? Does he deny he does anything wrong, put the blame on others? My WH has always been like that when it concerns money. He was in charge of paying the bills and sometimes I would get a call saying our car payment or mortgage was late so I would ask him if he made the payment and he would say yes the company probably misplaced it and then I find out he was late making the payment but didn't want to talk about it and would get angry if I brought it up.

When I found posts on an escort website reviewing escorts he had been with and hundred of phone calls/texts during this time when he was "working late" I confronted him about it and he got angry saying he made up those posts. When I found lipstick and wrappers in his back seat and asked him who has been in his back seat he said it must be our daughter and when I said out daughter has been away at college for the last couple of months so it couldn't be hers he exploded in anger slamming the door and walking out. He rarely admits when he does something wrong or apologizes.

Is this someone with NPD or just someone being defensive?

It could (and likely?) be someone just denying anything when busted.

Saying someone is NPD (or any personality disordered) is not based on a single action (or even a few), but a sustained, long-term pattern of behaviors. There are many points that said person needs to check off before you can say they are or they are not.

As honesttoafault said, PDs always fall on a spectrum too, so they may have some NPD tendencies, but not be full on out. And being co-morbid (both NPD and BPD, for example) is somewhat common too.

Honesttoafault: I’m glad I could say something that could resonate with you. This journey can be so lonely and you can start wondering if you’re just crazy.

H went through his ADD phase as well. He even got meds for it. Later, he got meds to try to see if he had bipolar disorder. None of it helped.

I believe now that he saw that I was starting to see through him and would try every excuse he could find. He couldn’t remember to feed the kids? Couldn’t remember our wedding anniversary? Must be ADD! Couldn’t stop cheating? Couldn’t stop raging? Must be bipolar!

The meds didn’t help, because he was still hiding the real issue, which was that he didn’t care. We are simply supply for him.

Watch his words. See if they match his actions. This is what you truly need to watch.

Sadone: WH would never admit that he had or could have ADD, although he would say things like, "That's just the way I am" like too bad, take it or leave it.

Superesse: You are right, he exhibits these ADD behaviors more with me and the kids, but he does it with other people too. It seems he may try to have more control with others.

luvmykids: What your WH is doing is classic WS behavior during denial mode. Redirecting the blame, gaslighting, etc. If he is exhibiting NPD traits on top of that, the reaction may feel stronger.

One thing I have realized lately is that if you can possibly be away from them for a while, you'll be able to see it all more clearly. My mother definitely has many strong BPD traits, and after I was able to distance myself from her, I could see them more clearly and how I got sucked in to it all. The same with WH. I have distanced myself a lot these past months and have realized how much I was living in fear from his NPD outbursts mixed with a lot of BPD. Almost every decision I was making I would have in the back of mind, almost subconsciously, "Would WH approve, would he get mad, is this in his "rule book"? Ironically, he would break his own rules of conduct, but of course that was ok.

Hoovering is one of the most dangerous and damaging things they do. There was a reason you married them in the first place. When they start acting "nice", reasonable, charming, etc. it starts your hope up again. You can get sucked right back in. If you don't respond to it, they get angry, so there you are living in fear of that anger even if you recognize the hoovering for what it is.

Right now, I feel so damaged. I know I was exhibiting co-dependent behaviors for survival for so long. Sometimes I feel I was addicted to him, hoping for the "good" behavior and crumbs, even knowing it was damaging to me. Like a drug addict. I spiraled down a deep dark emotional well of fear that I felt stuck in. Anytime I tried to get up, something would happen that felt like my knees were knocked out below me and I'd be down in the mud again.

Like it has been suggested many times, your best bet is to try to get away from them. You cannot fix them. You cannot change them.

honest, it's true that everyone is individual! H wouldn't admit to ADD for a very long time too. But I kept trying to figure out why he was the way he was (never remembering anything I said or asked of him, etc). I think he finally picked up on the idea because he saw that I was starting to question too much.

But, that was my narc. Many couldn't admit to non perfection, whether true or not. I do think my narc is that manipulative. He's very covert and constantly plays the victim. He was the victim in his destruction of me.

sadone: They would never ever admit in a million years that they are manipulative!! It's second nature to them anyway, so they wouldn't even realize it anyway.

Someone once said to me, "You cannot analyze stupidity" nor can you try to analyze a NPD. You cannot fix them, even if one tries to understand why they do the things they do, the behavior is not something one could or even should put up with.

For far too long I stayed, with countless DDays and apologies and then entitlement.

I just got another DDay last week and it was the straw that broke my back. Believe it or not, the person who told me was an OC from an OW!!! God help me.

Wish I had the money to D him, but can't afford the lawyer.

Stupid thing is now I'm dealing with a lot of suppressed anger, and most of it is at myself for putting up with this whole mess for far too long, to my own detriment and the detriment of my kids.

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:59 AM, January 6th (Saturday)]

I will agree that at times I do see labels thrown around here based off of one post etc. I see people throw out a diagnosis that may not be truly fitting. My H had been in IC a year and has been diagnosed. It isn't NPD but is is related. I don't think yet absolutely defines him or our situation, it is part of the puzzle that needs to be considered.

I think there may be a few reasons for this. Often the WS who has an issue won't go to IC or will not listen. Secondly, those people who have lived through things can see similarities with others and offer insight when a BS Is confused or needs supper. Cost can also be a barrier. I do agree it is dangerous to think you can diagnose and label someone via online posts. Overall, this thread is to help people make sense of their life with support.

Frkn what I understand many people with PD do not see it at all, so not think they need help, refuse it or don't believe it from reading many resources. Also My H's IC told us that they often quit or get kicked out of IC drom his experience. They don't believe the IC and try to educate him instead and act Inappropriately.

Manipulation was a way of life for my H. It took a better part of a year for my H to even see this via IC. A year! He would not have even described himself that way previously. It was hard for him to admit since he has no respect for that.The A, me, his image, going to church, how he would treat people in business was all very manipulative. He would have described himself as direct actually. It is so very hard to have lived with someone like this that distorts reality to suit themselves and their narrative. In my ah's case he was very logical and cere real and not very emotional so I think maybe he was a full time strategist. I don't know.

Honest, I’m so sorry to hear about the latest DDay. Is there no way to get free legal help? That is the one thing I have been able to get without much hassle. How must the OC be feeling too? They just don’t care about the damage they do.

I don’t even know if I should call the last 4 months the last DDay. I found him on tinder. He knew I was devasted, but that didn’t stop him. He moved out shortly after finding his new supply. In NPD talk, it’s called the final discard. He found the most hurtful way to leave. No goodbye, no closer. It’s like the last 14 years never happened. He wants me to be ‘happy’ for them. It’s the worst mind game you can play on n someone. I’m still in the stage of trying to wrap my mind around the fact that he never truly loved me. It’s such a painful process.

sadone, yes the final discard, never really is. They might start hoovering again. And if you don't respond to it, they will go from being nice to being horrible.

This last Dday has gotten to me in different ways than the previous ones. I'm not really hurt in the way I was before, like I've lost him, or he doesn't love me anymore.

It's more that I'm scared about finances. I'm afraid of whatever he might do, whatever revenge his NPD ego might do.

Also, this last Dday just makes me feel like a failure since my first M ended with xwh leaving. Even though I know logically it's not my fault, my feelings are so very strong.

I feel so irreparably damaged.

Thanks for letting me vent, because I know those on this thread would get it and not just say, "Good! Leave him!! What's wrong with you?'

Hi everyone,

I've been off SI for awhile.

I'm still in IC and getting stronger but my wexh is NPD and I still trigger with him...

For example, tonight he was calling to facetime me (he has kids) and I answered it. My phone just said 'connecting'.

He immediately sent me a text that read 'WTF answer the phone'. Internally I cringed. I am getting stronger in so many aspects and yet this happens. He also is firmly convinced I am 'chatting with a man from my past' which I am not, at all! But why? Just why? Why can't he leave me alone? He got what he wanted, just leave me ALONE.

I just need to get this out. Have been in the "fence sitting" phase for quite a long time now, while researching & getting all my info together to meet up with a lawyer at some point. During this phase, I decided to finally get legal records of an incident that occurred 19 years ago when my WH & I were just dating, which had resulted in him getting arrested for DV. We had been dating almost 2 years & moved away out of state where we knew no-one. We were there about 2 months when this incident occurred. We were in a store & got into an argument and he got so angry that he knocked over our carriage. I was mortified & walked out of the store so he began following me in a menacing manner. A store employee called police as he continued to harass me in the parking lot.They arrested him as the employee claimed they saw him hit me (I don't recall this happening). We were isolated, I had no support system to help me with this, so I am sure he helped me to "process" this event his way. After a co-worker friend got him out of jail, he returned to our home the next day & as I recall now, was not remorseful but angry with me that it happened & got me to believe it was my fault somehow. When he had his day in court, I declined to press any charges because he didn't hit me from what I could recall, but grabbed my shoulder.Yesterday I got a copy of this police report to keep in my records for the lawyer & it triggered me beyond belief. As I read through it, I saw that the employee did say he saw my (now) WH put me in a headlock & punch me in my head or my back.The thing is, I really don't think he did, or is my mind playing such tricks on me, that this did happen & I blocked it out completely & was brainwashed by him???? Yesterday was so emotional for me & I haven't been in a long time about this stuff, as I go about "business-like" gathering all I need for my eventual case. What I'm also having such trouble processing is that after this incident, how the F could I be so stupid to stay with & MARRY this POS?! And have kids with him.

I don't know if you blocked it out or not, but eyewitnesses are notoriously bad at remembering details and can embelish. Also, I would think if he was punching you in the head/back, you would have had bruising the next day/week - I'm not sure how you could have blocked that out as well???

That said, the gaslighting - convincing you you were at fault - is normal, and really damaging to your own psyche. Just wishing you the best in getting out of the marriage and that you heal and move on in life to one of happiness.

I want to talk about hoovering but first I want to respond to TwiceaFool2.

It doesn't matter if your husband did exactly what the police report says-keep it and use it anyway. The legal system bases everything on documentation. If that's what the eyewitness told the cops then by golly use it to your advantage. Whether he hit you or put you in a headlock or just gave you a good scolding in that parking lot, it's all bad and it all needs to end. Best of luck with your exodus. Don't try to be nice about it.

I have been divorced for 6 months. The only contact I have had with my ex is through texts. I had to refinance my house, obtain car, home, and health insurance, change my address from a PO Box to our street address, get a mailbox installed, come up with tuition for my son's school, do the taxes for my business and myself, sell a vehicle, buy a vehicle, maintain our vehicles, support 3 young men, maintain my sanity, keep my source of income afloat, and make sure I pay my ex his maintenance money by the first of the month.

It has been effing exhausting but so worth it.

He has shared custody of our 14 year old. Since our divorce he has seen our son once a week and taken him on one trip for a week. As far as I know, he does not work. I don't know what he does. He traveled the country for 6 weeks. He went cross country to visit friends and to Florida to golf. When he came back he needed to do his taxes and bugged me by text for info. He was going to file "married filing separately" . When I disagreed he tried to make me feel stupid. Turns out his lawyer never sent him a copy of the divorce decree! he honestly thought we were still married! Meanwhile I've been doing the happy dance for 6 months. LOL.

I digress. Now he will text me only when needed. His texts have an undertone of snark. I know the real him now so I expect it. What I did not expect were the sickening follow up texts rife with apology. "I'm sorry about that last text. I'm sorry I didn't know we were divorced. I'm sorry about everything. I always will be."

I seriously don't know how to get these texts out of my headspace. This is the same guy who took strippers out on dates and to hotel rooms and told me to deal with it because they were only friends. This is the same guy who refused to go to counseling because they were all a bunch of idiots who were trying to make him look like the bad guy. This is the same guy who i caught many times in the throes of some new addiction but trusted that he could pull himself out of it on his own.

Yea, that guy.

Like I said, I don't know what he does. I do know that he is crafty. I do know that he treated me like the enemy for the 18 months that I was begging him to give up the strip clubs. I do know that he doesn't have a clue how to treat people. I wish he'd quit with the apologies. They are crowding my head. I believe they call it hoovering but I don't get what the point is. Any suggestions?

bump...just to keep the thread on the page