SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know I’m going to get hammered here and I’m ready as I’m sure I need to hear it. Married 2001 & became disappointed in that marriage. I won’t go into details as to why because I am aware that I’m the one who stepped out of the marriage & there’s no justification for that.

2007 -formed a friendship with someone at the gym. We kissed twice & he moved away. I changed my phone number & never had contact again. Lasted a month or two. Then not long after I formed a relationship with a salesman that came into my office. That too lasted a couple months. We kissed and hands strayed. Never had sex (or oral) but not sure if H believes that. He found out about about the 2nd A but I omitted details about where hands went. Never confessed to 1st one. FF to 2016 & a “friend” started texting me. I pushed away for a while & I finally caved & we started a flirtatious relationship. Started sexting/phone sex here & there. H was out of town one weekend & OM came over & we made out. No sex of any kind happened. We would meet at his work or a park a few times after & would talk. Kissing happened some of those times as well. His W found a pic I had sent to him & asked him about it. He lied to her & she believed him. We cooled off & picked back up with communication a few weeks later. His W saw where he was texting me on his phone & called him out on it. He lied/minimized everything & she stayed with him. We never had any sort of sexual relationship after that but we did stay in contact. Nothing after February (ish) 2017. H & I got pregnant 3rd child Dec/Jan 2018 & I contacted OM sometime that spring to tell him. (No, it’s not his child.) He texted me a couple times during that pregnancy then a few weeks after baby born. Nothing sexual. I felt guilty for so long during this A and wanted to tell H but OM would talk me out of it every time. I had no backbone whatsoever. We are a family of strong faith (believe it or not), & something really pushed me to tell H in Feb 2019. I texted OM to let him know I wanted to tell but I wasn’t going to tell him about the fact that he came to our house that fateful night. So I told partial truths. I wish more than anything I had researched this stuff before DDAY. I lied and TT’d for months. My H finally does know everything after many painful discoveries & conversations. I confessed the not-completely-true version of the 2016 and after details to our church pastor and was given some marital assistance but kept any details about 2007 and earlier unknown. So here’s my dilemma: I guess I thought that once it was handled within the church & H forgave me (sex = forgiveness in our faith) than we are to try to move on. Meaning not bringing it up. I didn’t do much research about betrayal trauma during that time because I didn’t think it was necessary (I know I know) even tho H asked me to. This really made things worse for BH & now I’m trying to make that up. Reading books, reading on this site, learning to empathize more, IC. BH wants to R but said we need to have some pretty heavy convos for him to have closure. I’m fine with that. H told me yesterday that he needs another detailed timeline of everything. My body language was resistant mainly because I’m scared I’m going to forget something from 2007 that he remembered I said & it will look like I’m being dishonest. I read everywhere how I should be ready & willing to talk anytime & I am, but I just have that streak of resistance sometimes due to our faith & me wanting us to move forward. I already know I’m going to get hit hard here & I need to hear it. I’m truly remorseful & love my H. I want to help him heal but I’m struggling with that. Sometimes I’m completely humble and other times I think “I’ve been humbled enough so what else do I need to prove?”. I started re-writing the timeline last night & it’s so awful. H is pretty angry with me because of my body language yesterday regarding his time-line request so I’m not sure where he stands right now. I’ve apologized a few times but he’s obviously upset.

[This message edited by Flowergirl50 at 1:21 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

...I’m scared I’m going to forget something from 2007 that he remembered I said & it will look like I’m being dishonest.

I think given the degree of recall at the top of this post, your memory regarding personally shame-inducing events is likely sufficient. What it takes is overcoming the shame and fear responses that come from finally facing what you risked.

It sounds like you’re getting to the point where you’re taking on board that your honesty is more important than your personal gain- If your BH gets the full story and decides to D, you’re going to be better for it than “keeping” him by lying. I don’t know if that’s enough to keep your legs moving when you feel bogged down, but you need to find ways to do just that.

I would only advocate taking your time with your timeline- If you have trouble think about other major events that occurred adjacent to your As.

Sometimes I’m completely humble and other times I think “I’ve been humbled enough so what else do I need to prove?”

This shows you where your work needs to take you as you navigate and face your past. Simply put, proving is less significant than doing. Remember what your words are worth right now. They can be warped and manipulated in ways that your physical actions can’t. The personal work of living your values- Mean what you say and say what you mean- is a goal. It may feel far away but if you don’t start walking you guarantee you won’t make it.

I think 2007 isn't really what he is questioning.

You were sexting with a guy and then had him over and didn't have sex in real life.

See how he wouldn't trust you.

Now you are using sex as a weapon against your BH. He had sex with you so now he has to forgive you. It sounds like you aren't as full of shame as you think. It sounds like you are trying to control everything.

You are afraid of letting your husband be in control. If you really want to be scared, tell your husband to go to the Just Found Out side of this forum. Lately it has been a rampage of people logically explaining why they should leave their spouse after cheating.

You need to realize your fear is you not trusting. You still don't trust your husband. You fear his responses and want to tailor the confession to him. Stop trying to make the truth and openness of your communication about how it will effect you.

Instead focus on just giving him the truth.

He will see the effort instead of the fear. The fear shows withdrawl and lack of trust. Which says you are lying.

Good luck and you need to get over the 1 major flaw every cheating spouse has, They lie to themselves that they know what is best for their BS and always think they have the best interests of the BS. News flash, you don't and very few humans do.

Focus on the truth and unload as much as you can. Heck, sit down, read out the timeline and ask him where he sees holes and try to remember out loud and talk through those holes.

I think you need to really embrace the truth that the past doesn't just quietly stay in the past. People don't just "get over" traumatic experiences because they're told to, and it's doubly damaging if they're made to feel guilty or inadequate for being unable to do so.

This is tricky because it sounds like your BH's need to process your betrayal, and his continued lack of trust, challenges the tenets of your religious faith. From the passive voice you use -- "hands strayed, kissing happened" -- you're writing as if you're a third party observer. You kissed. Your hands strayed. You are the missing element in these sentences, and you need to put yourself back into them.

I'm not qualified to advise someone who is balancing religious doctrine with human psychology. All I can tell you is that in the latter category, you have a lot of work to do.

JBWD thanks for responding. As regards 2007 he wants every detail. Same for 2016. I’m taking my time with re-writing the timeline. As far as shame, there’s no amount that equals how much I feel but maybe it’s not enough or I’m not showing it enough. I definitely do need to work on my consistency - He tells me that quite often. I struggle with showing affection and communicating & he’s strong in those areas. DoinBettr When I told him my fear of not remembering something he said that if he has to help me remember, than what’s the point.

He knows all the truth so I’m not trying to manipulate that but I see your point about being in control & focusing on the truth (as I can remember it). Hopefully he’ll see my efforts in the timeline. I don’t use sex as a weapon, it’s just a fact of our faith & it was a concern of mine. Plus it can sometimes trigger how I felt early on in the marriage. I certainly don’t withhold it from him or even bring that fact up. I think I’ve mentioned it once or twice during this whole thing. But I understand what you’re saying & especially about him not trusting me.

flowergirl,

You're not writing the time-line for your BH - you should be writing it for yourself. That is how you start to face what you did.

As for faith - I grow so tired of people tossing out their faith like some kind of badge. That is not what it is about. Stop using it as a shield from accepting what you did and what you need to do to recover from being a cheating person.

Go to the top of the wayward forum and read the one and only pinned post - it may help you get a start.

As far as shame, there’s no amount that equals how much I feel but maybe it’s not enough or I’m not showing it enough.

To be clear, shame is not a positive. It doesn’t mean we don’t acknowledge the terrible decisions we have made, BUT by recognizing them and looking at WHY we made them, we can make better decisions moving forward. If shame overrides our ability to be honest because we’re still afraid of the outcomes, we’re stuck and we’re not going to improve and get to lives of integrity. Bottom line shame needs to be moved past to get to a point of honest self-assessment. That takes time, be patient with it.

Further

there’s no amount that equals how much I feel

this needs to be recognized as a counterproductive attitude. A superlative statement like this does little good, and is potentially interpreted as trying to give yourself more credit than is due in this particular case. You deserve credit to be sure, but assessing your unparalleled shame appears to me to be convincing yourself. I believe you feel miserable. I don’t know if your BH believes you feel miserable- Your words won’t convince him though. And more importantly, he needs you to understand that HE is miserable. Minor semantics but you’ll start to see just how telling the little words we use are, especially when we use them to give ourselves an “out”...

Putting everything aside, I think your main focus at this point to find out why you keep doing this. Why is it important that you have all this validation from other men? Then you just expect your husband to forgive you and move on.

You appear to thrive on attention outside your marriage.

When my dday happened I gave it to my xwh like this: Imagine all my internal landscape as a huge library. Everything that I am is on those shelves in books, and papers, and decorations, and lights. When dday happened a 9.0 earthquake ripped through that library and all of it came tumbling down. The shelves broke and all of those things were in giant piles of rubble on the floor. The walls surrounding all of that were cracked.

It took time for me to fix the walls and the shelves. Then I had to root through all of those giant piles and put it all back on the shelves. It took time to pick all the things up and clean them off and put them back. There were things that needed repairing and some things that were beyond repair entirely and had to be thrown away. And even though my library is mostly put back together today, you can still see where the shelves were repaired. You can still see the cracks in the walls. You can see some spots where some things used to live that were shattered beyond repair and had to be discarded.

The point I am making is that for me (and I venture to say for most BS's), the wound that is created by an intimate betrayal is indescribably painful. And it can and does heal, but the scar it leaves will always be there. It is NOT something that you just 'get over'. For me, it shattered everything I thought I knew about love and trust and honesty and it has taken 2 years for me to heal to the point I have today and I still have work to do. My marriage ended. But even before it did, my xwh killed any ANY chance of reconciliation with his continued lying and his expectation that I just 'get over it'.

If you are serious about R, please recognize that any further prevarication or lying or lying by omission or lack of humility will just continue to rub salt in the wound you have created. If you're serious about R, please realize that it will take TIME and a lot of it for your husband to get there. And you also have to recognize and acknowledge that he may not.

Flowergirl.

The time line is massively important for both you and your BS.

I have written my timeline a few times over the last year or so. We review and discuss then questions are raised. There have been omissions that I selfishly left out in the beginning and there have been things I had either not thought of or had forgotten. In these discussions memories are triggered and I have realisations and further understanding of what I was thinking or believing at the time. We have uncovered bullshit self justifications that I actually believed were true. I have used this to dive deeper into the inner me. What I am trying to say is that, for me/us at least, the time line is a working document. It is used to help both my BS and I understand. Talk this through with BS and maybe he will work with you in getting this document to be the full story. I don't believe it can be done on the first attempt. Lies, denials, justifications, the fog etc etc all cloud the initial draft. It needs to be challenged, mine certainly was and we are reading through it again after recent talks.

Keep working.

Flowergirl50, I realize what I say below may sound harsh. It isn't to rub anything in anyone else's face here, it is instead to give you a perspective closer to that of your BH's. In short, you also need to figure out your Why's. Not just so that you can become safe but also for the sake of your BH. You really hurt him and *he* is wondering how you could have done that to him.

Why did you cheat? Why did you think it was OK to step outside your marriage? I mean, you already knew this was wrong, BEFORE you decided to do it.

You need to do some hard digging to come up with solid answers to these questions. "I don't know", "I was stupid and wasn't thinking" "I don't know what was wrong with me" simply put will NOT cut it. You may start with whatever resentments you may have been feeling within the marriage, but ultimately you need to get to why YOU allowed yourself to stray.

And what are you doing to make yourself a safe partner so this never happens again?

And on a related note, your husband has reason to believe that you aren't truly remorseful, instead you had your fun with these other men and now you are sorry because you are facing some sort of consequences.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:37 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

MrClean I don’t use my faith as a badge & I def don’t use it as a shield from accepting my wrongdoing. I’ve read the top page of wayward and I’ve taken a lot of advice from that. Unfortunately some of it was too little too late for my situation. Wontbefooled I’ve worked really hard on finding my Why’s and they have evolved as I have learned more about myself. Ellikas well put.

I am a part-time SAHM and H has his own business.

My first timeline in mid-2019 was sorely lacking accurate information. In 2007, H did not know the latest version of what occurred until mid-2019 and i shared the details of what I learned only after H convinced me that he was forcing a polygraph after months of asking for the real story. Namely that I was naked in his bed, he was on top of me naked, how he had put his hand in me and how I told H that it stopped at that point purely because he saw me calling my phone....and that he has a hard time reconciling this given the details.

After telling me that he wanted to R and work on us in 2007, i met up with the OM again for a date and H found out only after finding a receipt proving i lied to him. H has told me how he felt I didn't like him because of my treatment of him. Since early in our M I began denying H oral sex either way and only allowed it after the 2007 date I found out about. I withheld H kissing my chest for many years knowing it meant a lot to him and i shared that with our mutual friend the night he came over. This was only discovered by H via the screenshot of my text to OM insisting that it be hidden that the OM's wife sent me. H found out about a sex toy given to me when the OM's W told him months after the 2019 DD.

I spoke disparagingly of H to the OM and H found out.

I also told OM early on that I went all the way with 2007 AP & that I didn’t want to go down that path again. I really didn’t have sex with him but at the time I thought if I tell him that then maybe he’ll back off as I’ve “been there done that, don’t want to do it again”. I withheld sex from H as well as general intimacy, even dates/vacations. I spoke disparagingly of H to one of my girlfriends about the sore subject of intimacy.

Throughout 2019 and for most of 2020, I resisted watching videos or reading books, websites, etc. that H asked for me to invest time into. And near the end of Summer 2020, I lied to H about diet pills.

[This message edited by Flowergirl50 at 8:43 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

slight t/j here: Bulcy - I thought that was a beautiful way to describe a timeline and it's benefits and healing power for both the BS & WS.

FG,

Reading everything you did it's hard to imagine how your BH can feel that you love or even like him.

Please note that kissing is sex and more intimate than other kinds of sex, this is particularly true when you withheld kissing from your BH.

You will also have to monitor yourself and your BH for HPV related oral cancers for the rest of your lives please get tested, kissing is serious.

Offer to pay for a polygraph, after the timeline is complete.

Offer a post nuptial

Expose the affairs to the OMWs

Give your BH any keepsake or present from the OMs

Throw out any clothing you wore when meeting the OMs.

Don't make little white lies if you spent 100 on shoes don't say 50, etc.

Really?

I am a part-time SAHM and H has his own business.

My first timeline in mid-2019 was sorely lacking accurate information. In 2007, H did not know the latest version of what occurred until mid-2019 and i shared the details of what I learned only after H convinced me that he was forcing a polygraph after months of asking for the real story. Namely that I was naked in his bed, he was on top of me naked, how he had put his hand in me and how I told H that it stopped at that point purely because he saw me calling my phone....and that he has a hard time reconciling this given the details.

After telling me that he wanted to R and work on us in 2007, i met up with the OM again for a date and H found out only after finding a receipt proving i lied to him. H has told me how he felt I didn't like him because of my treatment of him. Since early in our M I began denying H oral sex either way and only allowed it after the 2007 date I found out about. I withheld H kissing my chest for many years knowing it meant a lot to him and i shared that with our mutual friend the night he came over. This was only discovered by H via the screenshot of my text to OM insisting that it be hidden that the OM's wife sent me. H found out about a sex toy given to me when the OM's W told him months after the 2019 DD.

I spoke disparagingly of H to the OM and H found out.

I also told OM early on that I went all the way with 2007 AP & that I didn’t want to go down that path again. I really didn’t have sex with him but at the time I thought if I tell him that then maybe he’ll back off as I’ve “been there done that, don’t want to do it again”. I withheld sex from H as well as general intimacy, even dates/vacations. I spoke disparagingly of H to one of my girlfriends about the sore subject of intimacy.

Throughout 2019 and for most of 2020, I resisted watching videos or reading books, websites, etc. that H asked for me to invest time into. And near the end of Summer 2020, I lied to H about diet pills.

I would think you would read this to yourself and itemize the list of things you mention and discuss them with yourself.

Reading books? I think Bill Cosby has a skit where the question is asked: "What is in the book" and his answer is "words" - so it is. What have you learned from the words in the books?

Three books I would recommend: Bible-any verson (for learning morality) and the book by Linda MacDonald. And "Cheating in a Nutshell"

My general impression is you are real short on seeing the pain you have bestowed on your husband.

(some call lack of empathy) - I suggest you try to swap places (metaphorically) with your spouse and think of how you would feel if he did the things you have posted that you did with your assorted OMs.

Hopefully some of the Waywards here will chime in on what you have posted and help guide you towards healing. Dialog with them will, hopefully, lead "toward the light."

Also suggest you read JFO for how BS suffer and deal with WS.

Maybe you should first concentrate on answers to questions with unvarnished truth.

Often posted here is that the betrayal hurts but the lies "seal the deal" to exit the union. (or words similar)

I am wondering if you really LIKE your husband?

Wish you luck -

(edit - fixed some typos)

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 6:43 AM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

Hippo you’re right. I had no morals whatsoever & I feel terrible for that. I read the book “Why Did I Cheat?” and am currently reading “Not Just Friends”. Good stuff on boundaries thus far. Affair Recovery videos & this site have also been helpful. So I read & listen to these things but I guess I have a hard time putting them into practice. Even when I THINK I am, I’m not and I get so frustrated and discouraged. I know my H feels this x10. I’m in IC but will be changing therapists because I’m realizing that this one isn’t challenging me enough. She caters too much to my feelings & I think it’s making it worse in some ways. I need advice on how to change my selfish thinking. I continue to fall back on how things make ME feel and that overrides my H’s feelings. It’s such a cheater mindset that I need to remind myself of daily. Hourly.

Flowergirl, I ask you this respectfully: Are you attracted to your husband? Were you ever atrracted to him? When you married him did you feel lucky, or did you feel like you settled?

Your actions seem to say that the answers to the above questions are No.

Flowergirl:

Have you ever been a victim of sexual assault, either as a child or an adult?

If I'm your husband I'd try to figure you why you would want to be with me. Considering the denials you imposed upon your husband, the passion and desire you extended your AP's and the means of which you disparaged your husband to others, I'm having difficulty grasping the sincerity of your reasoning to reconcile. Can you speak to this?

Putting it in words may actually help you. Sometimes people want to reconcile simply because they want to correct a wrong, but that can be different than wanting to be with the man you love for the rest of your life. Your passion and desires seem to be for others and not for him, so if I'm him I'm assuming you want me for convenience or lifestyle purposes, not because you want to be with me.