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My BS and I have been discussing recovery and my behavior during my affairs. We brushed on the utterly pointless lies I told which only damaged recovery or raised questions about me during the time before d-day. We have agreed as part of our recovery that there are no lies...about ANYTHING...Even Christmas or Birthdays. I do not tell her what I have bought, but if she asks I will tell her. (She has not, but the principle is there).

It made me think of something that happened only yesterday. I was leaving the bathroom and needed to get into our spare bedroom to retrieve something. The Vacuum cleaner was in the way. I picked it up, and swung it out of the way. CRASH! It hit the door and damaged it. I repaired the damage and told BS when she got home....A nothing story you're thinking...Well, not really. For a split second I thought about lying about the damage and not telling her. WTAF!?! In the past I would have done this and if she had discovered the damage I would have lied about it!

Now I get lies about having affairs. But what stupid, insignificant lies did you tell you BS? How do you feel about it now?

It took me a long time to get out of the mindset of silly little lies. I've lied in the past about spending £20 ($26) on something saying I had spent £10 on it!! Madness.

BS here... no stop sign.

I do that too... say stupid little lies without reason. The spending $20 but saying it was only $10... I do that from time to time and just feel really dumb after. My wife wouldn't give a crap if I spent $20 on whatever... why the hell didn't I tell the truth? I don't know why I do it to be honest and I don't like doing it but I also don't kick myself when it happens.

It's absolutely hypocritical but that is no longer true for my cheater, however. Before her affair I think I would simply ignore these little dumb lies as just unusual human behavior. Difference is my wife so severely damaged my trust that I have no tolerance for her lies no matter how small and dumb. Any lie will cause a trust injury at this point. For example, at some point over the summer my wife went to lunch at McDonald's. She told me she got a cheeseburger with no fries from but I found the receipt in her car and saw she got a quarter pounder with fries and I lost my shit. She damaged my trust for an order of small fries. It caused me to trigger and I was pissed for a day or so. She is more careful now.

I think its really good you're aware of this though and working on it. Maybe some advice, I think if you inadvertently do let one of these out it would go a long way if you recanted. For example if my wife had told me she got a cheeseburger and then before I found the receipt told me that no... she really had more food. I would totally forgive her and not care at all and it would actually feel like a step forward in the trust department. Hope that helps.

This was huge for both my FWH and myself. I grew up in a crazy dysfunctional family but nobody but us knew it. Everyone else thought we were this ideal family. My mom taught parenting classes at our church even as her mental illness just destroyed my childhood. We had to lie about everything. As I result I couldn’t trust my own perceptions, trusted all the wrong people and mistrusted the ones who truly cared about me. Lying was hard wired into my character. I lived in addiction for 21 years and lied about everything. Lied when the truth would make a better story. Getting sober was unimaginably hard for me. JM’s background was different but he lied about everything too. God, what a pair we were.

When I finally got sober in 2008, the rigorous honesty of the program seemed unattainable. But I got it. I began to see the value in honesty and integrity. I would pause before speaking and make a deliberate choice to speak truthfully. One of my best friends is a sober addict and she told me this: “Brain broke—first thought wrong.” And that first thought for me is still sometimes wrong. I remind myself frequently that my brain is broke. Think things through to that second or third thought.

I think this is one reason our R didn’t fail when JM stumbled a couple of times. Because I remembered how hard it was to rewire my thinking. He had to rewire his too.

Today is much easier. We fail each other, but in small ways. And we make amends as necessary.

Growing up is hard, especially when you wait until your 40s to start.

Have you thought about whether this was conditioning in FOO?

Sometimes when you trace the patterns back to why you started doing them in the first place it can help you restate them in changing the patterns.

I do not have this issue, but my sister does. We grew up in a house with a lot of yelling and emotional abuse. I was the first born and learned to navigate that differently than my sister. My sister was more rebellious, which put her in the crosshairs more. And, it was usually over silly stuff that didn't matter. I can see her conditioning still carries through today.

Go through this specific behavior with your IC.

It's absolutely hypocritical but that is no longer true for my cheater, however. Before her affair I think I would simply ignore these little dumb lies as just unusual human behavior. Difference is my wife so severely damaged my trust that I have no tolerance for her lies no matter how small and dumb. Any lie will cause a trust injury at this point. For example, at some point over the summer my wife went to lunch at McDonald's. She told me she got a cheeseburger with no fries from but I found the receipt in her car and saw she got a quarter pounder with fries and I lost my shit. She damaged my trust for an order of small fries. It caused me to trigger and I was pissed for a day or so. She is more careful now

Broken, I absolutely agree with you point. As a WS I have shown my wife I cannot be trusted. ANY breach of this trust can be and has been catastrophic to our recovery. Even knowing this I continued to do so. I have had to relearn how not to lie!!!! While thinking about the lies, it has not just been in my relationship. These lies seep out into the other areas of real life too. I expect we've all told our boss "I'm working on the report as we speak"?!? or "I worked on it, maybe the file did not save". These too just need to be stopped.

Growing up is hard, especially when you wait until your 40s to start.

Very true. I'm not sure where mine came from. Family life for me was good. A stable upbringing, no major trauma and everything went as it should. I'm thinking back to childhood, and remember lies about lots of things (where I was going, who with, who ate the last chocolate bar) That sort of thing. BUT I think all kids do that. This is something I'm going to think further on.

Have you thought about whether this was conditioning in FOO?

I have, but I think it requires more thought. I really don't think there are any FOO issues in my past. I think my family is quite normal...

You can have a normal family and still feel like a certain parent can be easier to rattle. It's a form of conflict avoidance. Some people I think are just naturally conflict avoidant, some it's conditioned.

I've done it again. Had an opportunity to be honest about something and lied.

I've agreed to have self help books on as background noise while working from home, rather than the TV, youTube or Netflix etc.

Today was a busy day and I did not put on the books, I just shoved on a stupid YouTube channel. I did not pay any attention to it, but did not do as I has promised.

BS asked how my day was going and I said OK and we discussed how busy I was. Later in the afternoon she asked if I had done any work on "us" I said not a lot as it was a busy day. Then she asked about listening. I lied and said I had been listening to the books, when not on calls. (A lie) She asked if this was true....I then said I did have YouTube on over lunch (A lie it was for several hours both before lunch and after).

After all this I still lied.

I'm ashamed and sorry for letting her and me down. I am obviously not getting it. I am clearly not the person I thought I was becoming and that I come over as on this forum.

I am still what I was. A liar and wayward.

Hey man, you screwed up. It happens.

There is always a choice.... so the question is

Do you want to choose to learn from this and make adjustments moving forward?

OR

Focus on the shame and feelings of failure?

Don’t wallow in shame. Tell her the truth now, if you haven’t already. Tell her you are not going to stop working until you get it right. Next time, if you lie, make it right immediately. I promise, when you force yourself to stop talking, immediately correct the lie and ask forgiveness enough times you will find the strength required to pause and tell to truth from the start.

Thanks for the responses guys.

It has been nearly a week since the stupid pointless lie. BS and I spent two nights apart on Friday and Saturday. We have spoken about the lie and she wanted to know about more lies. I finally confessed to a big one. In my timeline I mention kissing and touching my AP, I admitted to her touching me while my jeans were open and I had my had up her skirt. The bit I omitted was that she performed oral sex on me. Up until last weekend I had told her that there was no sex before we (BS and I) broke up and that she only did this to me once.

This week has been a living hell for BS. I have once again started working on the timeline and we have so far covered the PA and I'm working on the EA now. Obviously this has opened up all the old wounds. I am seeking out additional IC to help understand and fix this self destructive behavior and finally get to the cause of my lies.

I have apologised to BS and am doing everything I can to try and help her and give her everything she needs. I have failed again, I know this. I'm not wallowing in self pity this time either. I know the magnitude of this fuck up and know this could be the end of us.

I feel guilty for my behavior on this site too. I have been responding to posts like I am a wayward in recovery. I'm not. I'm now a wayward on d-day 4. People have offered me advice on both what I post and what I had in my story. For omitting the above information and for letting you think I'm closer to recovery that I am, I am sorry.

I will still read and post on this forum. It is massively beneficial. However my focus at this time is on my BS and trying to save my marriage once again.

There's a line from a great Bonnie Raitt song that goes:

If you really want forgiveness,

better try the truth instead

It may not be enough, but it's a start

Might be helpful to make this your mantra in all things....

And as to "saving" your M, SIers say it all the time: you have to let go of the outcome" or "you have to be willing to lose the M to save it".

And they are 100% correct. So long as your focus is "saving your M", you are trying to "control the outcome", and you are setting yourself up to cut corners or make foolish choices... which in turn do not bode well for R.

I say this as gently as I can - it's not meant to shame or hurt: The M you had is dead as a doornail. The question is if you can change so that your actions match your values, change into a safe partner for your BS (and for yourself), change in ways that make you "R material".

I'm a BS, but it seems to me that a WS has to get to the point where they realize they might as well come clean & do the hard work, as they have nothing left to lose. Why not give their BS the information they deserve?

I recently saw a tv show about murderers, and this subject made my brain see a connection in that the FULL disclosure/timeline is similar to a murderer's full confession on the eve of their execution (no, I don't mean a WS is the same as a murderer of a human being and I don't mean a WS should be sentenced to death).... They have already been convicted & sentenced to (at least) one murder, so if there are others, why not just come completely clean? Why not give those families some closure of knowing what happened to their loved one? What does that murderer have to lose? Why not extend a hand of kindness in the aftermath of abuse?

Disclosure post dday is the same, in that the fact of an A is ALREADY "enough" for a BS to file for D. One A is plenty, and many BS will simply file for D, as whatever other details are irrelevant, bc one A was a dealbreaker. But if a BS is willing to even consider R, and that BS asks for a timeline of some, most, or EVERY detail, they are entitled to it.

IMHO, giving a BS the timeline s/he seeks is like a shoplifter returning at least part of what they stole. Keeping ANY secrets after dday is like the shoplifter giving the finger to the store owner after being caught. (sorry for the criminal references, it's just an easier way to express my thoughts).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 2:29 AM, November 27th, 2020 (Friday)]

Sorry-dup post

[This message edited by gmc94 at 2:28 AM, November 27th, 2020 (Friday)]

Bulcy,

I kind of had the sense from you last few posts/topics that you were beating around the bush about something that was bothering you.

You're starting to be honest with yourself and in turn you are starting to want to be honest with others. That is an important step.

Take the time to re-write your timeline. Re-read all of it and consider whether it is fully honest.

Tt is hard to come back from, then again so is cheating as a whole. IT is the work you do to fix yourself that will help moving forward.

At D-Day I decided to tell the truth. But that was only part of the story. I needed to accept what I did and understand why. Those took a lot of time and effort. It also took a long time before I was really honest with myself about a lot of things I did.

You have work to do still, as we all do, maybe now though you are ready to start looking in the mirror on yourself and really grow from there.