SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh Gosh, I just need to share this.

Split from wife around 2 years ago after DD. What followed was six months of the most horrific betrayal trauma. I was a regular poster here. It was an absolute life saver.

I am back on my feet. She’s happy. My kids are happy. I am, give or take, happy. I largely have peace of mind. I have processed all that I feel can be processed. I have a daily meditation practice, I journal, I feel emotionally stable. But I don’t want another relationship yet. I enjoy being single. I am building up a social network that is satisfying, fun, and supportive. London is my oyster. Friends and I hit the town every other week (when I don’t have the kids).

But a pattern has recently emerged and I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. The past say six months I have discovered “hook up” culture.

I had a few quick sessions with a therapist (therapy, not a hook up lol), and she explained to give myself time to heal, to savour and enjoy being single. To be free. To figure out what I am, what I have to offer, what I have to work on. And this I have done. This will go on for life, I am sure. But she also said, “but you’re a man, and you are likely not want to live like a monk” and then proceeded to give me advice on a tinder profile that will protect me from bonding so quickly after my break up. So my profile states quite simply: “not at second date stage yet. Marriage ended not so long ago and want to enjoy the odd date and female company now and then. Fun/casual, would be ideal”. I do alright in the looks department and get plenty of matches. 9/10 unmatch when they read my profile, but then that leaves those who genuinely want the same. They could be lonely, bored, or just feeling horney. I never get the sense that they are damaged. They just seem like me in the main – professional, either newly broken up, or have no plans to start a relationship. We give each other a kiss and a hug in the morning, and then go our separate ways. There is normally an evening of connection before the deed is done. It’s not just arriving at their place and doing the deed and going. I couldn’t do that, and wouldn’t find it sexy in the slightest.

The profile proven incredibly affective. I have women matching me who want the same. They want a night of romance, connection, laughter, and, yes, sex, but without the loss of space of a relationship. There is no deception. No smooth tongue and then ghosting. It is like a contract before meeting. However well the night goes, we go our separate ways.

So on my free weekends, I devote a night to friends and socialising and other activities, but one night, normally the Friday, I often find myself driving across London to strangers houses and hooking up.

And let me tell you – it has been utterly, utterly wonderful! I have never felt so Intune, embedded with my sexuality and parts of myself that were long forgotten (sexiness, flirtiness, sexual energy). In my marriage I was the perpetual nice guy, but after working on that issue, I feel like a strong, sexual, being – in tune with what he wants and seeing opportunities where this matches with what someone else desires too. I have found the whole “culture” extremely exciting, revealing, validating, and just down right hot. It’s been intoxicating.

It never intefers with the rest of my life. I realise that emotional health will not come through endless hook ups. But after a long marriage of being the perpetual walk over and investing all my efforts in trying to keep peace and quiet, it feels like my sexuality has been let out of the box!

The reason I am writing is that I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on what I am doing, and there thoughts about casual encounters. There is part of me that is terrified of what I am doing, and I am unsure why. It is not having any negative impact on my life.

The casual hookup culture is definitely not for me. It usually takes me like 3 dates before I even want to kiss a man. And a couple of dates after that before I want to go further. I need to be attracted to a man's mind to want to take my clothes off. (I don't care how physically attractive he is, if his mind doesn't stimulate me, he might as well be a mannequin.) There's no way I could achieve that level of mind attraction in one night.

That said, I have always maintained that anything legal between consenting adults, as long as no third or fourth parties are being lied to (aka cheated on), is acceptable. I hope you are using protection against STIs. Obviously do the math, if you are doing this, and they are doing this, without protection, you are sleeping with way more ladies (and men)than who you are actually physically sleeping with.

The cynic in me believes that a good chunk of people looking for casual encounters are in fact cheating on someone. I can be totally off base, but that's just been my observations. Just be aware of that as well. Nothing you can really do about that since you only see them for one night and likely won't be doing any research of your own into their personal life.

Go on ahead and have fun, but don't let it become like an addiction. I suspect over the long term this could change your brain wiring about relationships, and you might find yourself becoming someone you never intended to be.

In the meantime, continue with IC. (On that note, I'm actually a bit surprised that a therapist recommended you go out and have casual sex. I find that a bit odd...but whatever?)

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 2:34 PM, June 21st (Monday)]

Hi PuffStuff, fellow Londoner here

I did Tinder as well and I know exactly what you mean. It was exciting and fun and, as with you, instrumental in making me feel wanted and sexual again after the trauma of infidelity and divorce had switched all of that off for me. In my case, though, it got very old very quickly. The attention you get is only skin deep and people are quick to move on to newer prospects. I don't remember a single meaningful conversation I had on Tinder. There simply isn't time, or even need, for that. After a while, I started resenting being just a name and a picture and my confidence took a beating in thinking that I could be replaced so easily and so quickly.

Obviously you are not there yet and might never get to that point, but just be conscious that, switching to more traditional, slower and less exciting dating apps, when you are ready to meet someone to date and not just hook up with, might prove challenging after Tinder. It was quite an adjustment for me.

[This message edited by Karmafan at 9:14 AM, June 21st (Monday)]

The reason I am writing is that I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on what I am doing, and there thoughts about casual encounters. There is part of me that is terrified of what I am doing, and I am unsure why. It is not having any negative impact on my life.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Keep being up front with women about what you are looking for and all is good. There are different seasons to life when you will want one thing vs another. Just keep checking in with yourself to make sure you are still enjoying yourself and change your direction when you want something more substantial.

I think that what you are doing is fine for you because it works for you.

I don't think that it would work for everyone.

I think it's fascinating that your therapist helped you put together a Tinder profile to help you get laid. That's awesome!

Yes, I participated in the hookup culture for a time. I have zero regrets - it was something I needed to do for me and it was all above board and safe. I grew up very religious and never sowed my wild oates when I was young and I needed to figure out who I was before I could offer myself as a legitimate partner.

My friend's laughed because if I saw potential, I wouldn't sleep with them for a bit. If I didn't, I was up front about not wanting a relationship but down for a night of fun.

Met some pretty interesting men along the way :)

I have absolutely done that at various times in my life when I wasn't interested in a relationship. I think it's healthy and a lot of fun as long as you're emotionally prepared for it, and it sounds like you are. Honesty is what makes it work.

Honestly I'm kinda jealous. I always wanted to be able to casually hook up, but despite being passably cute I'm enormously awkward and kind of standoffish around men until I'm comfortable with them - which takes a couple of meetups. And then boom relationship. Every time. I've always wondered what a casual fling or ONS felt like and wished I could get comfortable enough to do that. BUT enough about my weirdo ass, I think you are doing NOTHING wrong and kudos for being upfront and honest!

I suspect over the long term this could change your brain wiring about relationships,

I think there is merit to this as you are describing it. Like it is an escape as well. I have female acquaintances that do a modified version of this (a couple of dates), and they are clearly affected. Not just a short period of time, but ongoing.

As someone who thought I could finally go experience that same excitement when I was finally divorced, but discovered I actually just couldn't do it, I can sense the men that do what you do over a long period of time, and it changes how they relate to women. There are women that won't want to ever get involved with one, if that is what you hope to switch the gears back to ever.

Not like it is "wrong" if both parties are consenting, but it somehow is not safe on a deeper level either. Hard to put my finger on it but maybe just a religious upbringing and nothing more that that, but it feels a little deeper than that, which may be why you asked the question.

Take care.

OMG! I am totally going to try this. I actually love sex and never used to be afraid of the occasional hookup, but after almost 20 years of rejection and shaming for being who I am, I have been worried about whether anyone would ever even want to sleep with me again. I have had anti-fantasies about becoming the a bar hag.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I just have a question for you to consider: do you think that this is about an inability to trust and not just a desire for sexual self-esteem?

I tend to see people jump into new relationships far, far too fast, so keeping things casual is not a bad idea. (I have a friend who got a D, got remarried, and got another D--all in under 18 months! Too fast!) I read a lot of post-D resolutions here: staying single, remaining celibate, choosing B.O.B., committed to porn, or pursuing hook ups--and all of those concepts, while understandable for sure, seem to say the same thing. "I would rather be alone than hurt again." Idk. Just something to consider. There may be more work to do to learn to trust again.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 11:18 PM, June 26th (Saturday)]

Did this in my teens/early 20's and felt like meat. Couldn't do it now Sorry, it my cup of tea.

Please use protection because some females will try for child protection

I read a lot of post-D resolutions here: staying single, remaining celibate, choosing B.O.B., committed to porn, or pursuing hook ups--and all of those concepts, while understandable for sure, seem to say the same thing. ‘I would rather be alone than hurt again’

This is so spot on OIN!

I read a great book by a Polish Sociologist called ‘Liquid love’ which explains this dichotomy very well: our simultaneous need for connection and resistance to it, the conflicting desires to tighten the bonds yet keep them loose. Of course, being infidelity survivors, we add fear of getting hurt onto the mix, making it really really hard to connect on a deeper level. That’s what I am experiencing right now, and it feels as final as it gets

That’s what I am experiencing right now, and it feels as final as it gets

I'm consumed with D proceedings right now, but I definitely feel this in the background. I have no inclination to be emotionally intimate with a man ever again. It hasn't been worth it in my experience.

Thanks all for your responses, some interesting opinions.

NOT FOR EVERYONE - BY ANYWAY SHAPE OR OPPORTUNITY.

I feel i had to go through a whole range of processing before I could even consider the idea of being intimate with someone. I'd probably be sucked into another miserable relationship if I hadnt.

hrough!

I am moving more and more away from it as we speak - and have no desire for it to be a permanant life style.

but was it fun, exhillirating at times - hell yes. I will have some great memories of very intimate, fun, connected, romantic evenings. if this is my "between relationships" stage - i.e. being single - then i think i have done okay.

every human being out there is trying to figure out how to live. key is karma - ethical sex is the best sex. that's why honesty and hook up culture is why it has come into being. there's a chance therefore that people walk away from teh experience seeing it as positive.

I just have a question for you to consider: do you think that this is about an inability to trust and not just a desire for sexual self-esteem?

I tend to see people jump into new relationships far, far too fast, so keeping things casual is not a bad idea. (I have a friend who got a D, got remarried, and got another D--all in under 18 months! Too fast!) I read a lot of post-D resolutions here: staying single, remaining celibate, choosing B.O.B., committed to porn, or pursuing hook ups--and all of those concepts, while understandable for sure, seem to say the same thing. "I would rather be alone than hurt again." Idk. Just something to consider. There may be more work to do to learn to trust again.

There was a lot of that for me for the first couple of years after I left. I think it's a good idea to stay single for a good two years after minimum anyway because we do need time to recalibrate and heal. I don't think that's where I am now, though I'm one who isn't looking for anything serious too. There are some pretty great things about being single that you just forget about when you're not. I like having my own space, not having to worry about compromising on decisions, looking however I want to look during all this home pandemic time, wearing comfortable underwear, lol. Not having to plan meals. LORD I hated that. Not having to fit into a wife mold or deal with the fact that I don't fit into a wife mold. Culture has taught men and women a lot of bullshit about how the home life has to be. I like this freedom. I like the peace that I've created. I am not opposed to meeting someone and all that love stuff, but I can't begin to imagine how great that guy would have to be for me to even consider changing my current life. I'm genuinely happy right now. New dude would be an unknown quantity. Some relationships work out, some don't. My relationship with myself is pretty steady and dependable.

That's pretty much where I am at devestateddee - wanna hook up? I'm joking.

Another thing that I have considered from a lot of sex positive writers is just how narrow the "hetro normative" framework is.That framework being:

must have two/three dates before sex. must spend 1-3 years before moving in. must live with each other for 7 years before marriage. then a couple of years before kids. have sex once or twice a week, etc, etc, you get the general idea.

And any diviation from that is seen as addictive, damaging, "will change your brain wiring", "you'll never be able to find anyone", or you will end up in some sort of terrible mess somehow.

Well a lot argue that the only actual REAL damage to the soul that occurs from liberal, explorative, frequent sex and sexual behaviour is the SHAME that comes from the deviation and fear from diverting from the hetro normative framework. So it's not actually the SEXUAL behaviour itself (hooking up, porn, fetishes, paying for sex etc) but it's the fear that it's not normal/healthy/correct/moral/that hte person will somehow lose control. The sex addiction label has been blown out of the water and is now not seen as a viable diagnosis. People engage with sex because they like it, not because they are "addicted". If they carry around 6000 tons of shame because they feel out of control/immoral - then thats when they end up trouble. Like the gay guy who has had 8000 partners and is perfectly content, mentally healthy, and enjoying life - he has integrated his sexuality and doesn't carry a sense of shame.

Then you get arseholes like spacey and the film producer (can't remember his name), and cheaters, whose sexuality comes prior their own morality, or complete abscence of it. That's a whole other thing, though, than two consenting adults alone meeting online and enjoying a night.

that is not to say there are some horrific ways people can hurt people through sex: child sexual abuse, rape, "hitting then ditching", sexual slavey/trafficing, etc. that is just abuse, sexual abuse. horrible.

It's just interesting to question assumptions about what we have learnt about what relationships, sexual or otherwise, should look like. it's just as revealling and theraputic and transformational as looking "within". no man is an island. this looking "without" is viable as much for the person full of their own sense of shame for being sexual, as the Peter PAn type who never wants to grow out of casual sexual behaviours - he could learn something from the hetro normative pattern about building intimacy and loyality, etc!

we are taught and live under a 2+5+7+2+7+3+A=B will equal: xyz.

when that is really questioned and seen through, you see that most of it can absoloutly be deviated from and...nothing bad happens. we just assume that what we have been told is somehow written into reality and it's a terrible mistake to deviate badly from it. we can live entirely by our own values and, essentially, our own ethics, not what we just have assumed is "real" or the "done thing". people often then have a release of energy, a desolving of shame, and often for the first time can actually feel and commune with the wonder of their own sexuality instead of keeping it at bay or restricting it, however subtly.

[This message edited by puffstuff at 12:01 PM, June 27th (Sunday)]

That's pretty much where I am at devestateddee - wanna hook up? I'm joking.

Ha ha ha! Where you at, sexy?

when that is really questioned and seen through, you see that most of it can absoloutly be deviated from and...nothing bad happens. we just assume that what we have been told is somehow written into reality and it's a terrible mistake to deviate badly from it. we can live entirely by our own values and, essentially, our own ethics, not what we just have assumed is "real" or the "done thing". people often then have a release of energy, a desolving of shame, and often for the first time can actually feel and commune with the wonder of their own sexuality instead of keeping it at bay or restricting it, however subtly.

Preach. Enjoying casual sex hasn't remotely affected my ability to connect with people. FFS, my first husband was meant to be a ONS but we just liked each other so much that it became more by accident. We're taught that our value is somehow related to our number of sex partners and that is madness to me. My sexuality is mine. It doesn't belong to other people. I do with it as I wish as long as it brings no harm to anyone. Anyone who judges me for it is dealing with their own personal issues, not mine.

I've hit a point where being in a relationship is no longer a future goal. We're raised to believe that it's the ultimate thing and that everything leads to that one special person, but that one special person is actually ourselves. Even when I was doing the whole hookup thing previously, I had that "one day you'll need to get married again so that you have a whole life" in the back of my head. That's gone. I will be fine whether I end up in another serious relationship or not. It isn't a necessity for me to be happy. It's nice, no doubt about it, but it's not a requirement.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 7:07 PM, June 27th (Sunday)]

I think hook ups are just fine. You are ready, they are ready. Why not. but at some point I imagine it will become a bit empty. And then you know you are ready for more.

I am just starting to get back into dating too. I find it hard work, and so far it hasn’t been great. But maybe with more normalcy around the corner it will be better. And with each month I hope to find more of my footing.

I have no idea of how to date, and am not sure of the rules. I have been more intimate with one man post D, but honestly I felt nothing but the urge to run. Guess it is still too early for me.

If I ever find my spine again and divorce my WH, I will likely do exactly the same thing. Have zero interest in any sort of relationship ever with another man beyond, "That was fun, I have work in the morning, buh-bye!"