SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree with ButForTheGrace.

1. Your WW has to leave the home for you to even consider R. A huge problem with current arrangements now is that in a way this all looks like just a really bad fight that will eventually blow over in due time.

2. Your WW should have ALREADY told her POSOM to leave her alone, and she should have ALREADY told her close friends enabling the affair that their friendship is over. Boyfriends and/or husbands of the close friends need to be notified of their s/o's actions supporting your WW's affair. (and possibly having affairs of their own too.)

3. Your WW's parents need to be notified, and so must WW's daughters, as they are of college age.

4. ETA I agree that you should be going through D RIGHT NOW, with a settlement that is favorable to you.

5. ETA: Are you sure that this was your WW's ONLY affair? Because I sure as hell am not! That she was able to carry this on with no apparent signals makes me think that this aint her first rodeo. (So I believe you should divorce outright and not even consider R.)

You have done an amazing job staying strong OP. But the way things are left makes me unsettled, for the reasons BFTG gave. Your WW is running around like a scalded cat now (or is she, what has she done actually, has she notified her family and ended her affair). But her tears are still mainly for HER and not for you. Eventually your WW will level out just as you will, and that is where many problems start.

We have seen too many BHs get roped back into R against their best interests due to slippery slopes and moving red lines and goal posts. They get into R because WW is in the house and it "feels silly" to "keep fighting like this", and besides their WW is being so nice to them too. Then they go see a counselor who says MOSTLY the right things but something slips out about the marital dynamic leading to the affair, and even though you said that will end any chance of R, your WW 'has been so good' and so 'are you really gonna throw it all away over one sentence'. And then the next thing you know, it becomes all about how you weren't such a great husband after all. As your WW's great behavior goes away and she even starts to feel RESENTFUL for how you keep making her feel bad.

We don't want to see that happen to you.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:33 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I feel that some people here, included those who mentioned the cheater or the cheated person should inform the spouse or her parents just for the sake of it are REALLY WRONG.

It is a clearly vindictive choice that is only aimed at humiliating the cheater.

Count me in as another who totally disagrees with this perspective.

Molly, as others have said, informing the OBS is the right thing to do to let them know the truth of their life and give them some of the agency back the AP (and the US) has taken away. There can also be some hugely beneficial outcomes in that the OBS may have info you don’t, can confirm "truths" and help expose lies. But most of all, when the light shines on the affair, it tends to stop things. If AP wants to work on their marriage, they go NC. If they choose to go underground, you at least have another set of eyes on the situation. Having the OBS find out about the affair shouldn’t be that humiliating to the cheater. And even if it is, so what?

Now, telling the in-laws can be trickier. If the marriage is being dissolved, they should absolutely know why. They have a stake in these things and deserve to know. It also can help protect from false narratives like DV that don’t truly exist. I also believe if the marriage is dissolving, the kids deserve to know why. Especially if they are adults. Type B personality disorders, bi-polar, addictive tendencies that play into cheating are all things the kids deserve to know IMO. My wife’s dad was a cheater and an alcoholic. Her mother was a cheater, both brothers are addicts and cheaters. Just like a "family history of cancer", shouldn’t they know about "this family history as well"?

We have made the decision not to share while we are working on "R". If we split, our kids, siblings and friends will know why (our parents are dead). That is the "truth". If my wife doesn’t want to be perceived as a piece of shit, she shouldn’t have BEEN a piece of shit.

Molly, you made decisions on who to tell and who not to tell. We all have that right. It doesn’t mean it is done in a vindictive manner to humiliate the cheater. Each situation is unique.

From my own experience, I found out about my wife’s multiple affairs many years later. People knew in real time and didn’t tell me. A couple "hinted around" that "she isn’t who you think she is". I would have divorced her had I known in real time. She started cheating on me 39 years ago and kept it up for 20 years. She then lied by omission for 18 more. My entire life was stolen from me by infidelity. People knew and didn’t tell me. One OBS caught her husband cheating with my wife in 2003 and divorced him. No one bothered to tell me. Those scumbags are complicit in stealing the last 21 years of my life from me. Is that "better than humiliating a cheater"? Not to me…..

Sorry to T/J.

OP, like all advice on SI, take what you can use, and leave the rest.

I feel that some people here, included those who mentioned the cheater or the cheated person should inform the spouse or her parents just for the sake of it are REALLY WRONG.

^^^Wholeheartedly disagree as well. I wish the other BS who found out MONTHS before I did would have told me, it would have saved a great deal of heartache for both of us.

Just Crushed, despite living this hell, you are doing a fantastic job of navigating through the muck. Please make your own needs and health a top priority. Whatever you decide to do, it's going to take a long time to crawl out of the darkness, you will have to muster up every ounce of strength and courage to move forward. Dealing with this sh*t sandwich is not for the faint of heart, stay away from alcohol, exercise, find a good IC, meet with your MD for some temporary medications to help you cope if necessary, get rest, and get out of your immediate environment for respite whenever possible. Lean on trusted family members and friends.

Butforthegrace has excellent advice.

JustCrushed,

The best way of finding out if your WS is a good candidate for R is to test her and keep testing her. That requires communication. The 180 limits communication. It's antithetical to R. If you're considering R, communicate with your WS.

*****

People tend to project their own ideas onto to other people. I know R can work, because it works for me. It hasn't worked for others. But the results each of us has gotten aren't going to define the results you will get. Some SIers tell others to choose a specific option. Other SIers aim to help people figure out the best course for them.

We can help you choose by providing feedback and suggestions for figuring out what you want, but you have to make your own way to survive and thrive. No one here knows you (or anyone else) well enough to know what's possible, much less what's best for you.

Personally, I think there's no one size fits all for recovering from infidelity, unless it's: identify what you want, and go for the resolution that best serves you. You tell us what you want. We'll help you get it, as much as we can .

*****

My advice, too, is to ask any question you want an answer to. Questions are extremely useful tests. The answers help you recalibrate your ability to read your WS's non-verbal communications. The answers can help you evaluate your WS's truthfulness. Truthful answers help rebuild bonds; lies help you move to D.

The one thing I'd add is this: if you fear an answer to a question, you owe it to yourself to ask that question. Truth tends to come out, and IMO, the sooner it comes out the better. If a deal killer is lurking in the A, my reco is to find out ASAP. Otherwise, you can waste months, years, or even decades working on R, until the deal killer surfaces.

*****

I assume every WS talks shit, belittles, dehumanizes their spouse.

Nope.

You being an outlier does not negate what's true.

I would like to see proof that HellFire is the outlier here. I don't see anything wrong with being an outlier, but I'd like to know this: What data says HF is the outlier in this case.

I'm asking a question here, not defending HellFire.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:53 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

Just checking in again. I appreciate all the advice, observations and wisdom. I don’t know how I would get through this without them. Nothing huge happened yesterday. It was tough trying to get through the work day. It’s a pretty intense at work and I really struggled to stay focused. I’ll try and answer some of your questions.

My WW says the OM is single. From what I’ve seen he is. In one of the first texts, he gave her instructions on where to park in his spot at his apartment. I should have the PI report in the next day or two and then I’ll know for sure. If there is an OBS, I will definately tell them.

WW told her parents that we were having a major issue. That’s an understatement, but still true. I’m not going to change and ask WW to tell her parents and the girls now. If we divorce. I’ll tell them. I’m not naïve about the situation with them and what will probably happen. I don’t think I’ll lose them right away, but I think there’s a high probability that I will in a year or two. They’re family, will circle the wagons and I’ll be on the outside looking in. That won’t be the driver, but it’s something I need think about.

After consulting with a D attorney last week, I’m not concerned about needing any leverage if we divorce. Our 401K’s and options are more or less the same. Except for the house, all our assts are liquid and it’ll be an even split. As far as the house goes, we sell it or she can buy me out. The attorney said the house is not an issue and it’s relatively easy to have the court force a sale if she makes it difficult. As I said earlier, I plan to pay my share of the girls college expenses, but will not let that be written into the final settlement.

As far as me being the supplicant or passive one in the relationship, I don’t think that’s the case. I’ve really tried to look at this. As far as WW and especially the girls are concerned, I’ve always wanted to give them a life that I couldn’t have even dreamed of. Yes, I’ve always put them first, but overall, I’ve gotten great joy from this. The other thing I’ve had to look at is love. I know this stems from childhood, but at a deep level I always thought love had to be earned. I’ve been working on this for a couple of years now, but it’s pretty well ingrained in ne. The thought that someone could actually love me for no reason is still foreign to me. This whole dynamic may be what looks like me being passive.

Finally, for those who’ve encouraged me to separate myself from my WW, I’m going to. I have a work project wrapping up this week. So, I booked an Airbnb for a week in our local mountains. WW is a walking trigger and I just can’t get any clarity when I’m seeing her all the time.

Thanks again for the support

Good job, JustCrushed. Seriously, keep on keeping on with your plan and you are going to be remembered with Spaceghost007, Shamwow and others as to how a BH should act when faced with an unfaithful wife. People will point to your story as one that other betrayeds (either male or female) should emulate to remove themselves from infidelity with strength and grace.

Develop and implement your plan. Separation will be great for both your physical and mental well-being.

Thanks for the info regarding whether there is an OBS. Do you get a feeling that the AP is a player and your WW is just another notch in his bedpost? If so, your WW is looking at a possible meltdown that could result in a mental health crisis. If you get even a hint of her having a mental health crisis, you need to inform her parents immediately so that they can get her the help she needs. It's no longer your place to take care of her if you are seeking a divorce. But you don't want her to do something permanent that will leave you feeling any type of guilt. Check out AmbivalentOne (I think that is his screen name, devasting ending to his story) Anyone else remember his correct username?

WW told her parents that we were having a major issue. That’s an understatement, but still true. I’m not going to change and ask WW to tell her parents and the girls now. If we divorce. I’ll tell them. I’m not naïve about the situation with them and what will probably happen. I don’t think I’ll lose them right away, but I think there’s a high probability that I will in a year or two. They’re family, will circle the wagons and I’ll be on the outside looking in. That won’t be the driver, but it’s something I need think about.

I am sorry @JustCrushed but that strikes me as hugely problematic. There is an expression that sunshine is a disinfectant. Your WW's parents and daughters knowing right away about her affair--THAT is part of the sunshine that is a disinfectant. You are making a HUGE mistake in not letting them know now.

Yes I saw that you will let them know when/if you D. By deciding to wait until D though, you are muddying the waters for everyone. People--especially her parents--aren't guaranteed to put together that your so-called "issues" were your WW's affair, and then after that, they will be inclined to think that the A came AFTER the "major issues" involved (still horrible but to many people "issues" will provide some context for an affair) and you better believe your WW will not be setting people straight on this.

Which brings me to my next question: What consequences HAS your WW suffered yet, REALLY. Aside from you blowing up at her, it does not yet look like any. Can't your WW's parents be informed of WW's affair and then she goes and lives with them for the time being? You started out great but it looks like now you are weakening, DON'T DO IT!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:56 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I am going to disagree with WontBeFooled:

There is an expression that sunshine is a disinfectant. Your WW's parents and daughters knowing right away about her affair--THAT is part of the sunshine that is a disinfectant. You are making a HUGE mistake in not letting them know.

Yes I saw that you will let them know when/if you D. By deciding to wait until D though, you are muddying the waters for everyone. People will be inclined to think that the A came AFTER the "major issues" involved (still horrible but to many people "issues" will provide some context for an affair) and you better believe your WW will not be setting people straight on the timeline.

To me the major mistakes come when you make rash decisions. If you go into telling others as some sort of attempt at getting the A to stop or to wake up your WS, it does not always work, and sometimes it even backfires. There is no magic solution. In my case I did not divorce quickly. I also did not tell a whole pile of people quickly - but I did blow up the A to the people who were most likely to have an impact on my WH's life. That was NOT his daughter or his immediate family. It was his co-workers and friends. But it didn't matter in the end - WH still did what he wanted and the A still continued even after a pile of people knew - all it meant was that WH has to lie to a larger group, and indeed, he did just that as he was not ready to stop or come clean.

In all honesty, I really didn't care (and still don't) about what other people thought in terms of the timeline or really about any of it whether he has told them or I have. It does not sound like the OP gives a ____ about that right now either. I am of the mindset that you can indeed change you mind and tell them later, but you can't un-tell them once you've told so ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION and wait if you are not sure. In my own world I never told some of WH's family - as I really didn't want them having that kind of insider knowledge about me and I would never even think of mentioning it now as it would be so unnecessary to my agenda.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 8:01 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

"Error on the side of caution"? I thought the OP wants to GET HIMSELF OUT OF infidelity ASAP. To do so requires some bold moves on his part. If he plays it safe, he likely will end up staying married to a woman who gravely disrespected him to another man and whom he does not trust (a bad outcome indeed). He also will be blamed for the demise of his marriage by at least his WW's daughters whom the OP may love as if they are his own. I am sorry but I am just not seeing how waiting to tell others is prudent, or even if it has led to a good outcome for EVEN ONE person.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:26 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I wonder when WW told her parents that she and JC were having a "major issue" if they assumed JC was cheating.
If someone told me something was major I would assume infidelity. If WW said "I messed up and we have a major issue" that implies she cheated.

JC... In a way I can understand your cheating wife not wanting to tell the "whole truth" at her parent's 50th wedding anniversary. My reason is that I can still remember my wife and my 50th anniversary. It was a joyous occasion and everyone had a good time. I would have been devastated if I learned our daughter had been cheating on her husband on that occasion. It would have ruined everything.

However, her parents and daughters need to know maybe a PG-13 version ASAP. If it doesn't happen soon guess who is going to be painted as the villain who destroyed your marriage? It sure won't be your WW. You can take that to the bank.

You are doing great on getting your way out of infidelity. Keep your head up and your back straight. We are with you all the way.

I agree with ThisIsSoLonely and I would err on the side of caution. Expose to the AP’s gf or OBS.

Take sometime to figure out what you want. Every instance of infidelity is in fact disrespectful to the BS. This case is no different. Use your time separated to work on you. Although I would keep the lines of communication open with your WW. There are two ways out of infidelity: R or D. I won’t tell you must file for D. And, although I did successfully R with my W, (best decision I ever made) I would never tell you that you should R. It is your life. You will receive support no matter which option you choose. There are those who have D’d for much less and those who have R’d from worse disrespect and infidelity. Figure out if your WW’s infidelity was a dealbreaker for you or if it is not, whether her actions demonstrate that she is a candidate to try and recover. This is still very early after your DDay. Process your anger and rage. Time is your ally.

t’s about doing what’s right. Informing OBS is the morally right choice as it gives OBS agency to make informed decisions about her M. Perhaps Molly wouldn’t mind, but MANY betrayed spouses harbor righteous anger/grave frustration that the OBS knew about the lie they were living, and chose not to inform them, increasing their suffering all the more.

Well, actually is it allowed for people on this site to disagree or do we have all to conform? Your idea may be as valid as mine. Why would it be my responsibility to let the other betrayed spouse know? Whose responsibility would it be? I didn't want to have anything to do with the POS, FB. The betrayal was something within our couple.

I strongly believe a betrayed spouse has uniquely to concentrate on her/his marriage and not interfere in other people's lives. There is more than enough in their plates.

Also here many people mentioned the to inform the inlaws: why is it their business to know what happens in the couple? The ony thing that could be said is: we are experiencing a big crisis. Please leave us alone. When and if we are read,y we will have social events with you, not now.

[This message edited by Molly65 at 10:45 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I agree with most of the others, telling everyone kind of works as an insurance policy. If an affair is going to end, daylight is surely the best killer. It also has a side benefit of showing you who is a friend to the marriage. Granted, it was 20+ years ago and I was still just a kid but I should have told more people sooner. I think it would have helped me.

It also shows your WW that you’re not going to take
Things lying down. It shows you to be a strong person. All the people who play pick me and do other things that would make them look like they have no self respect well, they may recover their marriage but I also see the WW permanently lose respect for their partner. Those are the ones that tend to repeat offend.

All this really does depend on your family dynamics, which you know a whole lot more about than any of us. For all you know, she’s already been crafting and telling a narrative to these people that is not even close to the truth. It’s hard to get ahead of that, which is why it is so much better to sing from the mountain tops ASAP.

I have to agree with those advocating full disclosure. Especially in this case where the WW's behavior was so egregious. You can't expect her to ever be forthcoming about what she did and said. That will never see the light of day unless OP draws the curtains back on all of it. Age appropriate disclosure for the kids and full for parents, especially the in laws who will obviously be biased toward their daughter and open to manipulation by her.

With respect to her feeling the consequences of her actions, I agree that so far she hasn't had to deal with much. But if OP follows his plan and sticks to his guns, she will begin to feel some heat soon. I think if OP decides to D, he can ratchet things up some at that point in time. A person would need to be a saint, not to go medieval on her after what she's done.

"Error on the side of caution"? I thought the OP wants to GET HIMSELF OUT OF infidelity ASAP.

This is not a race. Let the guy breath and find some emotional stable ground. He is already getting out of infidelity, he confronted and made his intentions clear to his WW.
Divorce is a path you take when you are ready to move forward in that direction, not a form of punishment.

I don’t think I’ll lose them right away, but I think there’s a high probability that I will in a year or two. They’re family, will circle the wagons and I’ll be on the outside looking in.

JC, they are your family too, you might find that they love you more than you think. You don’t need to lose them. I agree with ThisIsSL, talking to your daughters and her parents can wait when you have a clearer idea of where you stand, even if it’s just limbo. I wouldn’t rush it, it’s been a trauma for you and it will be a trauma for them too. I’m sorry for what you are going through.

do the two long-term friends of her, who knew and encouraged the affair, have spouses?
you know where I am going with this?

did she write ap a nc message? how do you know she wont see him again in the future at antoher conference?

Exposing the A to adult kids, siblings and parents definitely helps put an end to most A unless they are exit As. However, many BS don't want others to know unless absolutely necessary.... for a variety of reasons. In addition, if you are not sure you really want to R there may be less need to expose. Instead, wait and see WW's actions. Exposure often speeds an end to limerance but if you are leaning toward D anyway, there is probably no immediate need to do it.

I do think if there is no exposure, ever, it may mean there is never enough accountability and too few consequences from the A. It coukd represent rugsweeping in a sense.

I too have to say that telling the other betrayed spouse is morally correct. How many stories have been told where a friend or even family member knew of the affair and did not tell ruining their relationship as well. Having said that, I’m sure that there are circumstances where the decision to tell seems wrong. Leave everyone to their own opinion. Here at SI however, it would seem telling is in the vast majority.

As hard as this is you have handled it like a champ. Stay the course, don't let her knock you off plan.