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I read this somewhere and I guess it really resonated with how I feel right now, 4 years after DDAY and an unexciting, emotionless relationship.

How someone treats you is how they feel about you.
Don't try decode it or make excuses for it.
It's simple : if they act like they don't care, they don't care.
Because if they truly liked you and valued you, they would never put you in a position to question the way they act towards you.
Despite claims they love you, the'd just act right and show you what you're truly worth.

My WS had a lot of explanations on why she acted so cold towards me, why she's "never been really affectionate" (except with her AP I guess, from what I've seen and read...), why she can't do this or that "because she's so tired all the time", "because she's 45 now", "because she'll soon be menopaused", etc. etc.

Maybe some of it is true, maybe not. But I still feel a lot of it is crap, and if she isn't doing the efforts in this R, it's not just that she's lazy, but it's she doesn't care.

What do you think of the quote ?

The quote is true. All of it.

Your wife has excuses. Many of them.

Your wife takes you for granted. She’s complacent. She’s lazy. She’s always counting on you being there.

She had to step up her game to get the AP to notice and become interested in her. Same thing my Cheating husband did. The OW got communication at levels so deep that I had not seen in decades.

Unfortunately I allowed my H to get away with it. For decades.

So to answer your question, your wife doesn’t want to or doesn’t feel the need to make an effort. Doesn’t mean you need to change her. You may need to change your lifestyle or current circumstances (ie you don’t have to accept it snd can choose to divorce her if you want to).

Life is too short. Don’t live a life of unhappiness or regret.

I think that statement is a little simplistic. It could reflect how the person feels about a whole group of people or people in a certain role. It could reflect their values of how to treat someone given the situation. It could reflect how they feel about themselves in that situation.

In terms of how they feel about a group of people or people in a certain role, other than the obvious example of believing a serial adulterer will always be a serial adulterer no matter who the spouse is or how they behave, here is another example. There's a woman who worked with abusive partners (mostly men) and wrote a book titled Why Does He do That? She pointed out that these men who physically and emotionally abuse their partners and children generally do not behave the same with their friends, coworkers/bosses, and other people in their life. They have generally given themselves permission to behave that way only with those certain others in their lives. (Note: The book and author are from memory. I hope that's the correct info.)

An example of how the person feels about themselves and the situation is from a friend. His father was a first-generation immigrant and joined the US military for a career. When the friend was of age, he joined the military as enlisted and was later awarded college funding through the military. He naturally held the military in high regard.

His oldest son wanted to join the military and was accepted to a military academy. That son did very well and has a rewarding career in the military. His second son was accepted to a military academy also. He went, but he was not excited about a military career or the opportunity. There's a point in the program where you commit to joining the military. If you quit afterward you have to pay back all the free tuition. That son did not want to commit and wanted to transfer schools. His father was beyond upset and treating him poorly. He insisted his son needed the structure or would fail out of a regular college and that he was throwing away opportunities and would fail in life if he quit. Clearly this was more a reflection of the father's feelings about himself and his values. That son did transfer schools and has a rewarding career and life now too.

Do you agree : how someone treats you is how they feel about you ?

A generalization for sure -but I have found the way someone treats me is more a reflection of how they feel about themselves.

That doesn't excuse the behavior.

I came to say what Chaos just said.

Our relationships with others is often a reflection of our relationship with ourselves.

If we don’t love ourselves we do not know what it means to love another. If we don’t respect ourselves we do not respect others. If we self sooth by escapism, whether that be through sitting for hours in front of our tv or phone, we are not connected with ourselves and there is nothing that is there to connect with another.

However, just like previously stated sometimes a person’s best is not enough. She may not have done enough work on herself. I am also going to say it could definitely be how she feels about you as well, but from my standpoint a lot of people do not know how to love.

I will also say that regardless of how much women and men project their way of thinking into the other I have come to believe we are very different in some fundamental ways and sometimes that also gets lost in translation. The sky could be falling in our relationship but if we have regular and good sex he will tell you we are very connected and in love. That misinterpretation comes from a lack of communication. Women do tend to be more receptors than initiators, and we tend to need to feel emotional connection. I am not making generalizations, plenty of people may not have that as their experience. However, I have read a lot of scientific based information on that and trauma can feed into those things. I think it’s may look less gender based and more about your combo of masculine/feminine energy. Being aware that all humans have both types of this energy, I firmly believe our level of attraction to our mate depends on being magnetized by the opposite energy of our own.

I agree with Chaos and hiking.

It's complicated.... My W gave me love and support for decades. Then she conducted her A, which was definitely not a loving or supportive act. How did she treat me? How did she feel about me?

In the end, how she felt about me was secondary at best. How I felt about her and what I wanted from her were far more important questions. It was only after I realized/decided I wanted her that her feelings about me became important. If I had decided I didn't want her, her feelings, thoughts, and desires would have meant very little to me.

The most important question a BS has to answer is, 'What do I want?' The next question is probably, 'What am I willing to do to get it?'

Notice that's a lot different from, 'What do I want to avoid?'

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:22 PM, Friday, January 24th]

This is more a theoretical discussion to me.

I think you can learn or internalize certain behaviours to others even if you don't think they apply to you personally or that you need or deserve them. I believe you can learn that a dog or cow or child or whatever needs to be beaten to behave. And also not feel that the same applies to you.

I also think you can believe that you are entitled to being an adulterer and that your partner deserves it while you do not. So, I guess I think you can feel you are right to treat someone in a way that doesn't reflect on how you feel about yourself. However, I'm not saying I agree to the sentiment while also reflects how I feel about myself. Maybe that's the point? I guess my question would be can you unlearn it if you feel that unequal treatment.

Interesting discussion.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 7:02 PM, Friday, January 24th]

While I agree with the premise of the statement generally, I do think it's possible for a maladapted person to love someone (or have sincere feelings for/attachments to them) yet express themselves or behave in ways that cause pain and anxiety... but that doesn't make it acceptable, excusable, or something to tolerate.

It's like the old school yard saying: "He pulls your hair cause he likes you!" You know what? No! It doesn't matter if he pulled my hair because he hates me and wants to hurt me or if he pulled my hair because he likes me and that's his way of flirting and getting my attention... DON'T PULL MY FUCKING HAIR.

And on that note, perhaps more important than the idea that "how someone treats you is how they feel about you," I would say that how you allow yourself to be treated is how you feel about yourself.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:36 PM, Friday, January 24th]

I also think you can believe that you are entitled to being an adulterer and that your partner deserves it while you do not. So, I guess I think you can feel you are right to treat someone in a way that doesn't reflect on how you feel about yourself.

This caught my eye, because I never thought of it quite in this way before. I am actually picking it up to explore.

I felt entitled to my affair, for sure. I would be skeptical of a ws who didn’t find a way to justify their wrong doings due to cognitive dissonance. All the rewriting and ridiculous ways of pushing away what was wrong.

But the justification is lying to yourself, and when you do not have honesty in your relationship with yourself then you can not have it in others. I knew it was wrong, feeling entitled was just a way to make it feel less wrong.

iamjack,

I would really like to hear from you if this is at all helpful before I reply more. I am interested in the discussion.

Thank you all for your messages. I understand each point of view, and I think I agree most of them, as they're not completely opposite.

What I understand from the quote is that WHILE they act like they don't care, they don't care. Maybe they cared and ceased to care. It doesn't change anything if right now, they don't care. On this I agree with The1stWife. And Sisoon in a way : once she cared, then she didn't. What only matters is what she's doing NOW.

As for Chaos and Hikingout : I agree, it is probably a reflection of how they see themselves. Still... they do not care and as you say this is no excuse.

BluerThanBlue : I love this perspective. Maybe the person doesn't know how to give, maybe he or she had a bad childhood (probably like my WS), but... as you say "DON'T PULL MY FUCKING HAIR". Because in the end, what's important is how we feel as BS in the relationship. We're not caregivers.

To KitchenDepth5551 : I'm not sure I understand your last post, sorry... On your previous post, I believe the comparison with a father figure being hard on a child because he wants what's best is very different from what a WS does. They're by nature completely selfish. I'm not sure it can be compared.

On the last post, do you mean sometimes it's a reflection of how the WS see themselves, sometimes it's not ? Either way, I find it hard to understand how feeling entitled changes anything in the way WS act. During the A, they don't care, period. After the A, well this will depend on the remorse and guild they can feel, and their willingness to be a better spouse, I guess.

I think the quote only speaks for the present, not the past or the future. If the WS acts like this in the present, especially once the A was discovered, and at times they should be moving mountains to save the M, YES if they act like they don't care, THEY DON'T CARE.

[This message edited by iamjack at 10:29 PM, Friday, January 24th]

I don’t think it is that simple at all.

It's simple : if they act like they don't care, they don't care

My WW claimed and sometimes still claims this about me. It was a large part of her justification for multiple EAs and PAs. Does that mean I don’t care about her? Not at all. I am sometimes distracted or overwhelmed or tired or annoyed or whatever. Mainly I have found that it is her interpretation of how she is feeling in reaction to covert contracts not being met. She has expectations on me (that not being able to read minds I am unaware of) that I am failing to meet. She reads that as me not caring. Now keep in mind this not true in cases of pure dickishness. I try to be extra careful to not take what I observe through my filter of emotions (they act like they don’t care) and turn it into a belief that I know their truth (they don’t care). But at the end of it all, we have to answer this. Am I ok with how I am being treated no mater what their reasoning may be?

Restating that… It’s simple: if they act like X, am I ok with that?

I started telling my wife, don’t talk to me like that. Or don’t treat me like that. It doesn’t matter why she is doing it. Almost always it is followed with some self reflection and an apology and the underlying reason coming out. Which is not always what I would have expected.

[This message edited by Tobster1911 at 2:47 AM, Saturday, January 25th]

I agree tobster. That was kind of what I was trying to get across with the projecting what we think on the other person. I am very happy you wrote this because you said what I wanted to articulate only so much more eloquently and without assigning gender to it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:04 AM, Saturday, January 25th]

Have you changed course from your decision to D?

100 percent what Chaos said. They treat themselves and everyone around them according to their own self worth and often with cheaters they have very little of it. But still is not an excuse for terrible behavior.