SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This isn't about cheating. Idk if it's even about R. One of the things we've been talking about a lot in MC is making connections with each other. My H doesn't share really any of himself with me. He's very closed off. I have told him repeatedly that sharing his thoughts, feelings, and experiences with me is very important to me. That's how I feel connection.

I'm a yoga instructor. He came home from PT and asked me to help him with some yoga poses his therapist told him to do. I showed him the ones he asked about and suggested some others that might help. We talked about doing some yoga together. I invited him a couple of times and he passed both times. I told him to lmk when he has time and we'll do it. I didn't hear anymore about it for weeks.

I just asked him if he was avoiding do the yoga with me. It wasn't until after I asked that he told me he was doing it his gym after his workouts. Here I was waiting for him to come to me so we could do it together and he's been doing it without me for weeks, I guess, without a word.

He has done with other things. A while ago, I started rucking. I said I'd like him to do it with me. We went together a few times. One time, I wasn't feeling well and didn't want to go. He went without me. Now, he goes once a month with his gym ruck club (that I set up even though I'm not a member), but not with me.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Trying to figure why it bothers me. I know why, but I'm having a hard time putting it into words. I think it's yet another example of him not putting in the effort to rebuild our relationship. He cruises along assuming everything is fine as long as we aren't fighting. Yet another thing that he says he understands in MC, but fails to work on in our daily life.

Maybe he’s struggling with the closeness….. Or also getting too vulnerable. I know my H was. The AP asked nothing of him. We had a child and mortgage and business together. I did think I asked a lot of him, but he asked a lot of himself for me and our family. The A was an escape from that and being mortal and middle aged and all the failings the felt for himself.

My FWH is classic avoidant attachment and I’m, admittedly looking to cling. Post A….my FWH has proven all in….but giving him space was really hard for me. Me…I’m all emotions all of the time. You can read what I’m thinking on my face. I’m hyper sensitive and FWH is stiff upper lip. We got into a hard cycle. I needed more…and he pulled away. So, eventually I stopped playing that game.

Post A…and we’re 7 years out…getting ok with giving each other the space to do what we need to be ok, is…ok.

My H has an avoidant attachment. I have a healthy attachment. I don't have a problem giving him space. We're 11.5 years post dday. We've been in MC for years. He knows his avoidance isn't healthy.

I'm not asking or expecting him to spend every waking minute with me and tell me everything. I do expect him to share his life with me. That's what a partnership M is. We can't have a close connection if he doesn't share himself with me.

A Theoretical Question I have wondered about with Attachment Styles: Why does it seem that so often we see an avoidant attachment style person choosing to partner with either a healthy attachment style partner, or an anxious attachment style partner? I can kind of grasp the pull of an anxious attachment style person to an avoidant attachment style person, but why do avoidant attachment style people still so diligently CLING to the other atrachment styles they actually feel a need to avoid? (Asking for myself.)

...why do avoidant attachment style people still so diligently CLING to the other atrachment styles they actually feel a need to avoid?

We're drawn to the light that we cannot find within ourselves.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Trying to figure why it bothers me. I know why, but I'm having a hard time putting it into words. I think it's yet another example of him not putting in the effort to rebuild our relationship. He cruises along assuming everything is fine as long as we aren't fighting. Yet another thing that he says he understands in MC, but fails to work on in our daily life.

Coco my feeling is because once again, your husband chooses to look for the things he needs (and can receive naturally from you) outside the relationship.

That's what is likely bothering you. For his affair he was looking for sex. Now he is looking for self improvement.
What's happening now is not necessarily bad, for sure not like the betrayal, but it's coming from his very same old pattern, and that's setting off alarms bells in your nerve system, even if you did not find the words outright, you "sense" it.

You H is avoidant, hot and cold with emotional unavailability, he has low self worth so he "doesn't want to disturb you, to cause you a problem", unless he has no other way he will look elsewhere for his needs.

And this sweeps again the carpet under your feet.

He has not resolved his attachment style and his deeper issues apparently. I have the impression that you were convinced he had more progress (in MC seems ok) than he currently has.

So you are having expectations normal in a secure relationships: "whenever you need from me darling, just come and ask, I am here".

But he does not understand that language, not yet at least.

You know he can change, because everyone can if they want. Reading your posts gave me the feel he is a bit passive, still "going with the flow" not expressing what he feels inside because "no one gets me anyway, so I better shut up and try to solve it myself" (while repeating his self sabotaging patterns, so solving nothing, just repeating the cycle).

You are making some progress, but you can spot the red flags.
You are the most grounded partner in this relationship, and you must protect your peace.

Maybe talk to him and express your feeling of unease for these behaviors, he will not seek contact, you have to do it, not for him, but for your own clarity.

He can truly love you, want to be with you, but unresolved issues and a perpetuation of his avoidance have been disastrous once already, you can't keep that time bomb undefused, or you will lose your peace.

Even if he has a homework to write every day one thing he is pissed off about or really needs from you, even if it is offensive or hurting you, he should learn a different pattern: you are his loving wife, who already gave him the greatest gift a wife could ever give her husband. A second chance.

He can tell you everything, you are thirsty for his emotional connection, not only his presence like an empty shell around, you can take his emotions no matter what (and until he breaks this pattern you can learn to bite your tongue and not react immediately if what he shares does piss you off, count to 10 or 100 or just tell yourself "I will wait 3 days before responding to this, so I will not blow up, at least he shared for once").

My wife is avoidant and emotionally unavailable too. Her pattern is gradually cracking, because whenever she shares some disturbing shit of her emotion I do not react, I just say "I know, and that is ok" (even if I get hurt by what she says).

I noticed that reacting was only pushing her more inside her shell. Accepting, saying nothing, works to crack that armor. Is the "art of not giving a fuck" ramped up to 11 (even if you care, but avoidant are afraid any emotion they reveal will be 'used against them in a court of law', is what their nerve system learned in childhood).

Maybe this works with your husband too.
You have to approach and show what means to share your feelings (this one is an opportunity) and he can reciprocate, he will meet no resistence no matter how awful or offensive he believes his feelings will be to you.

Easier said than done, but you can pull it off, if it does resonate.

A Theoretical Question I have wondered about with Attachment Styles: Why does it seem that so often we see an avoidant attachment style person choosing to partner with either a healthy attachment style partner, or an anxious attachment style partner? I can kind of grasp the pull of an anxious attachment style person to an avoidant attachment style person, but why do avoidant attachment style people still so diligently CLING to the other atrachment styles they actually feel a need to avoid? (Asking for myself.)

I have passed through different attachment styles, starting from secure attachment (broken to dust when my first real girlfriend basically had sex with a pedophile in front of the 16 years old me), then I became avoidant, then back to secure and then anxious / fearful avoidant with tendency to trauma bond, back to secure again today (at least is what I feel like).

When you are avoidant (this is what I felt):

Basically you crave a connection but are scared to hell that the moment you connect it will be left bleeding and destroyed, because "ALL intimate connections always go to shit".

You very likely have experiences with other avoidant or anxious attachment styles.

Avoidant-Avoidant
The avoidant ones confirm your premises. You take what you want, whether connection, sex, company, and then you both drift, no strings attached.

You both want closeness but are afraid to let the other in, so one of you will pull back, and the other will pull back too before it gets too "deep". You both have the confirmation "phew, look at this, I knew it was going to happen, I dodged a bullet" which reinforces the pattern. And you will miss her (/him), but you know that's the movie.

You may have few short term comebacks now and then, but you feel you got burned already even if no one of you committed to true intimacy, the idea of is enough to reinforce the pattern. You both self sabotage.

Avoidant - Anxious
In the beginning is beautiful, she really is into me! Wow. Maybe this time?
But then she is ALWAYS there, and you start thinking like "she tries to show me what she feels and how much she wants me, but fuck she wants me to prove her, I am not sure, this is nice but is weird, what if.... maybe I can let her in a bit more? Is she safe? And what if this ends the moment I start feeling the same?"and soon after that turns into "God this is suffocating, I need space" and you pull back.

She follows. You Pull back more. When you see her hurting you get closer because you feel bad. She resumes attaching. You pull back again.

See how it is messed up?

Avoidant - Secure
This is the best one because she is there for you but leaves you live your life. It's ideal, it gets under your skin.

But why she does not want more connection? Maybe I am making a movie here and I am missing red flags? (YOU are the red flag, but that's how you see it when you are avoidant). This feels dangerous.

You Pull back. She might be confused, trying to understand, still being the normal good partner but of course she is starting to notice something is off. So you go a bit closer. Pull back. Repeat. is Hot and cold, push - pull. Until you either run away because it is weird she is tolerating your crap behavior (something must be off, better cut it) or she gets tired of your bullshit and dumps you as she should have done immediately.

That's sums it up for my experience. I can tell you your attachment style is not solidified and unchangeable, traumas or self work can change it, but you need first to realize it and want it to change.

Even secure attachment can be broken from trauma, I started with that and then spiraled down.

We're drawn to the light that we cannot find within ourselves.

Exactly, you will crave the light and warmth, but you will still keep yourself into the cold and dark corner you relegated yourself into.

That's the "comfort zone"

That’s why post affair I made an effort to find connection with many others. Different groups. Different activities.

If my H shares, it’s good. If not, I know it’s not a me thing — it’s a him thing.

And I don’t need him to prop up my self-esteem or boost my confidence or make me happy. That is my responsibility.

Supresse, I think Unhinged answered your question quite well. I was anxious attachment when I was young. Interestingly, when I became securely attached (or however you say it) is when my H decided I didn't love him and ultimately cheated.

BFTS, so many good points. I think you're right that it's a continuation of him trying to meet his needs outside of our M. He is so afraid of bothering me, that he shuts me out. I know that's his problem. It stems from his FOO. I have done and said everything I can to help him understand that I am not his father. There's nothing more I can do.

FTRA, he didn't look for sex from someone else. He was drawn into an EA by a predatory serial cheater. He was craving external validation. Because he is avoidant, he didn't talk to me. She saw his weakness and preyed on it. He was an idiot. By the time she started pushing sex, he was hooked on the ego kibbles he was getting from her and didn't want to lose that. And, gain because he's avoidant, he didn't say no for fear that she wouldn't like him anymore. Some of the stupidest shit I've ever heard of.

1stwife, it's not about me needing him to prop me up. It's about him understanding that he will never get what he needs from me if he doesn't let me in. Our relationship will never be what he wants it to be as long as he continues to try to meet his needs outside of it.

In this case, it’s sad to say he’s not as invested in the relationship. If he was he would make an effort. But he doesn’t. The workout situation you described is his way of showing you what he values, needs and desires.

It’s unfortunate he doesn’t see things the way you do. I don’t have any suggestions as to how to get that to change. I think you have tried your best but continue to meet with resistance for some reason.

I’m sorry for you.

My husband is secure attachment, but is avoidant of conflict with me. I am disorganized attachment due to complex childhood trauma.

I have had a lot to overcome in terms of attaching. His infidelity never helped.

I always had difficulty asking to join him, or even taking information from him when I was working on a project or doing something new for example. I was resistant to him "teaching" me anything. I have learned that this stems from my childhood, because my father was so abusive and overbearing that my reaction to even "normal" input caused me to feel threatened and reject it.

It was hard work to get past that. Even now, when he offers to help with a small thing - like he offers to carry the laundry basket to the washer - my inner thoughts are first "NO!", then "Why is he offering?" Only after I fight those responses can I just accept the offer.

He plays guitar. I have always wanted to learn, but despite his offer I don’t want him to teach me. It’s dumb. I don’t want him to judge me as a bad guitar player (which is dumb because I can’t play at all!), I don’t want him to think I’m dumb because I don’t know how to play, and I don’t want him to hear and see me fail.

I know how dumb this attitude is. Yet here I am.

I immediately thought of this inner conversation I have when you talked about the yoga thing. I wonder if his fears and thoughts are similar to mine.

5decades, we have talked ad nauseum about his inner stories in MC. Both the therapist and I have told him they aren't true. The therapist has told him he needs to ask me whether or not what he's thinking is true. He doesn't. I understand why he doesn't. I don't take it personally.

Supresse, I thought of something else wrt your question. How else would an aboidant person build a relationship? They need someone else to take the reigns for them. My guess is that they more often end up with an anxious person because that person would always be chasing them. Otherwise, they wouldn't interact with anyone. A securely attached person probably wouldn't put up with the avoidant behavior for long.

1stwife, thanks for making me feel worse. 😕

Time for a ((((Group Hug))))!

5decades, did you take an online quiz to figure out your attachment style? If I recall from my classes, Disorganized Attachment is pretty extreme in the way it manifests during childhood, at least. But the way you described your resistance to any kind of help from your H sounded very, very familiar to the dynamic we got going on here... I call it the "Yeah Buts." First response to anything mentioned by me must be for him to question, reject or otherwise not want to respond in a neutral and disinvested way; it's always about who is "more right!" I find myself thinking "Why? If it is no big deal to either of us, why debate it to death? Why not "be agreeable, unless a different response is imperative?" But it's known that people who score LOW on the personality factor of Agreeableness, could not care less about that. (See the "Big Five" Personality Theory)

I still see my WH fitting the "avoidant" attachment style, as an early MC pegged him, but your comments are making me re-think. How did you derive that as your Atrachment Style?

My alcoholic father was verbally abusive, in a sarcastic, cutting way (he was very smart and we admired him for his intelligence but wow his words could cut like whips). He also used a belt on us from time to time... so if my H happens to speak to me in a particular deeper tone of voice and/or "snaps" at me, I will still find myself cringing with a bit of over-reaction, left over from being that helpless kid. I recognize it, but it is an instant, knee-jerk response and to me, seems it would be easier on everybody if he'd simply quit with that overbearing tone of voice, DUH!

I like what BFTS wrote avout the potential to CHANGE Attachment Styles over time, gives us all hope!

5decades, did you take an online quiz to figure out your attachment style?

I did, and it came back saying I have an anxious/preoccupied attachment style. Some of the characteristics include "clinginess, jealousy, and difficulty with boundaries."

I'm not clingy at all. In fact I was the opposite and it caused some issues between us. I was distant if anything. I'm also not jealous. Or at least I wasn't pre-affair. I took some pride in the fact that other men find my wife attractive. It never bothered me, and I always trusted her without question. Obviously to a fault. I also have never had any issues with boundaries. I'm the one who was cheated on! I've had opportunities to cheat, but shut it down.

I'm either hard to categorize or maybe those online quizzes aren't very accurate.

Or... maybe being cheated on has a way of making a person anxious and preoccupied... lol.

Or... maybe being cheated on has a way of making a person anxious and preoccupied... lol.

That happened to me, first love, first betrayal.

Changed into avoidant, then later cheatings changed into anxious (following that, trauma bonding). It's dissociation and trauma, yes your attachment style can be impacted.

But it can also change back to good.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 10:13 PM, Tuesday, February 24th]