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I felt like I was making the sandwich speech so often that I had decided to rest it for a bit, but here goes. Back by popular request...

It’s fundamentally based on the situational reality that you (the BH) have two options; accept you share your wife or refuse to share your wife, and that although you might want to reconcile then your destination is out of infidelity based on the path OPEN to you.
Goes something like this:

"Wife. I love you and still do. I always envisioned us together for life and I would really want that to be possible. However – I have had an epiphany. I have realized that although losing you and not having you in my life would hurt, then immensely worse is sharing you. While you are in your infidelity then at best I’m sharing you, and I just don’t share my wife. I don’t do that.
I care too much for you to force you to be with me against your will, or to stand in the way for your happiness. I respect myself too much to be at best an option. I realize that while you are fixated on your infidelity then that’s what I’m doing, and that’s what I am.

I’m setting you free to do what you want. I absolve you of all expectations I might have to you as my wife. You are totally free to be with OM. You can date him, visit with him, stay at his place, take him on a holiday, spend all time on the phone with him, introduce him to friends… Whatever you want. But not as my wife. I’m simply assuming that you want your freedom from our relationship and therefore moving forwards as if it’s over, and all that’s left is the emotional, practical and legal processes of formalizing that.
I do ask that you show me the courtesy of not talking to him when I’m around and not having him here where I live. I would appreciate you be discreet about him around me.

I’m getting out of infidelity – with or without you. If you have any wish to remain my partner then you have a short window to make that clear to me. You need to verbally and very clearly tell me that you want me, and that you agree to some conditions like total accountability, absolutely no contact with OM, therapy and counseling. Do that and convince me you are on board through your actions, and I might start believing we have a future. Just remember that I’m content with my present decision because having a goal beats the pain of sharing you, and the further along I go the less inclined I will be to turn back.

Don’t worry about how we separate. There are laws and regulations and processes that guard both our interests, and I have no wish to make any of this harder than it needs to be.

And then you go make a sandwich.

You have said what needs to be said. You have set your course. You have already outlined what you are doing: The emotional, practical and legal processes of formalizing the end of the relationship. She knows what she can do: Nothing – thereby telling you through actions that she’s committed to the infidelity, or verbally, clearly and unequivocally commit to the marriage, accepting the conditions you have and showing through action that it’s what she willingly wants.

She comes over and says she needs time to decide:
"Do what you want. I’m happy with my decision and will continue the process of getting out of infidelity" and go make a sandwich. No need for any further communication.

She tells you she did this because you took her for granted:
"If we were working on our marriage then this is something we might have to address, but since you are committed to your affair then it’s a moot-point and I don’t see any need to go into it" and then go make a sandwich.
She says you have BO, or a beer-tummy, or watch terrible shows… Guess what?
"If we were working on our marriage then this is something we might have to address, but since you are committed to your affair then it’s a moot-point and I don’t see any need to go into it" and then go make a sandwich.

Get it? You have a boilerplate answer to all the issues she might want to bring up to increase the drama and justify her actions. Your response by doing such a mundane task as reaching for the bread, ham and cheese is sending the message that it is what it is, you have decided your path and are moving on with life. Might as well do so with a grilled sandwich in your stomach.

What you are doing is removing all drama.
It’s no longer leaving a couple of boxes in the living room and waiting for her to comment about it, it’s no longer her being able to wallow in the decision should she stay with the ogre or ride into the sunset with the White Knight. It’s no longer you at home, wondering if she’s doing overtime or doing Doug the TV guy. It’s YOU plotting and enforcing your way out of infidelity, and it’s her deciding on her own path.

If your marriage is meant to be then this will bring her back. But if it’s not meant to be it will help you become free in the shortest period possible.

Basically, the only drawback I can find with this strategy is the added weight from eating all those sandwiches…

What I told my H on dday2.

I am D you. I have no other choice. I have nothing left to give to this marriage. You are free to go and be with the OW or anyone else you please.

And I left the room.

I didn’t know about SI during my H’s affair. If I had we probably would not have reconciled.

But this is the 30 second version of Bigger’s speech. It wasn’t a discussion. It was a statement.

He stupidly believed he could still control the situation. As I instituted the hard 180 he lost all of his power and ability to make any decisions concerning me or kids.

Game changer

Basically, the only drawback I can find with this strategy is the added weight from eating all those sandwiches…

Totally necessary though because by the time anyone’s making this speech they’re already down 15 pounds. Choking down the sandwich might be the hardest part of this scene!

I woke up today, signed in for work and after reading everyone's responses, I feel more assured.

Thank you everyone. Seriously, I wouldn't be sitting her now with some hope if it weren't for you all.

Either way, I'll be OK. And I owe a lot of this thinking and belief to you.

I'm still scared, but I guess that makes sense since this decision is massive.

I woke up today, signed in for work and after reading everyone's responses, I feel more assured.

Thank you everyone. Seriously, I wouldn't be sitting her now with some hope if it weren't for you all.

Either way, I'll be OK. And I owe a lot of this thinking and belief to you.

I'm still scared, but I guess that makes sense since this decision is massive.

You are going to survive this.

Wathever it happens it will be fine.

Your peace and happiness is worth far more and is something an active cheater will only ever dream and never achieve.
You can.

Hey Pete, I wanted to mention something that may seem off topic but I promise that I'm trying to add to the discussion.

You mentioned that you maintain separate finances. Your writing makes it seem like you are in the US. Most US states are community property, meaning that there is no such thing as separate finances, except in some very edge cases. ALL income earned by either partner is community property. Even investment earnings in separately held accounts, ALL IRA distributions (even if the IRA was built prior to the marriage) is community property. The idea that a married couple tries to operate as if their finances are separate, is preposterous, given the treatment under the law (of most states.) If a couple is doing that, how committed to the marriage are they?

I have friends that try to do this. They've been married for decades and have adult children, a home, etc. "She" has massive credit card debt. "He" has paid his off and has some investments. Guess what? "They" have massive credit card debt and "they" have some investments.

Marriage is a partnership. If you're going to partners, be partners, and understand what that is.

I have an IRA that I inherited from my Aunt. As inheritance, it's my separate property. This is one of those edge cases. I own it and in an divorce I'd take it and it would not be divided. BUT, I have 10 years to fully distribute it. ALL of that distributed money is community property. While we are married, the law requires her to be the sole beneficiary. Should I die, that account that is mine, becomes hers. Weird as that sounds, that's how it works.

Clarification on credit cards: if it is not a joint account, then only the named account holder is responsible.

Same for some loans.

Thus married couples can (and do) keep some of their debts and assets separate. It’s all in account holder name.

Example: H & W marry. His insurance policy named his W as beneficiary. They D. If he never changes the beneficiary, she inherits the life insurance.

Example: H takes out a loan in his name only. He passes. W is not responsible for the loan balance at time of death.

Hope this helps you.

That is all super helpful.

I'm going to discuss everything with a lawyer next week (earliest I could get an appointment) to go over what to expect.

If things go the separate/divorce route, I'm pretty sure my wife won't want to or be able to secure a lawyer, so I'd expect her to be fine with a discussion where we list out everything and decide before paperwork goes in. Can have it notarized by a family friend who lives nearby.

Illinois thankfully is a no-fault state. And it looks like it can all be handled electronically with only an online hearing at the end to complete the proceedings.

I think we are getting a bit ahead on the issues… This hasn’t yet reached the stage where divorce is a foregone conclusion.
But I’m going to take part in it…
If H takes out a credit-card without W knowledge, runs up debt and doesn’t pay, then eventually someone might knock on the door at W and H residence – even if H has moved out – and carry away the TV, laptop and furniture paid by W unless W can prove with receipts and transactions that W paid for the goods from a non-marital account. W could probably sue H, but won’t be watching TV while doing so…

BUT this can vary state by state and between countries. I don’t think we can do more than suggest Peter be aware that there can be some complexities or formalities to keep in mind.

What can be learned from this semi-off-topic discussion peter is this: IF this ends in you and WW separating and divorcing, then it sounds like you two have a relatively simple logistical issue regarding the marriage. You don’t own a house, been formally married 4 years (that’s the length of the legal commitment – not the time together) and no kids. It’s very possible that you two can amicably settle everything over the kitchen-table in one sitting.
However – be 100% certain that neither of you remains in any binding commitment to the other. For example: make 100% certain that credit-card debt is separate and acknowledged as such from the card-provider. Check whose name is on the lease and make 100% certain that the one moving out is removed. Even if you two can do most of the groundwork yourself I would always recommend legal aid to make certain everything is covered.

Thank you for that!

And we don't have any joint credit cards either.

Just a savings account that essentially holds her inheritance from her mom and grandmother passing, and a few thousand dollars I've deposited. I'm sure we can agree on her just keeping that account, and I get to keep the car she helped me with a down payment on.

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In other news, I've written out a mix of the "sandwich" speech, and with some questions and statements of my own that I'd like to share here if that's OK. Any feedback is appreciated.

I still love you, even after everything that's happened here. I always saw us together and I still want that to be possible. With that said, I've realized that losing you and not having you in my life would hurt, what is worse is sharing you with someone else. While you are in your relationship with them, then at best I’m sharing you, and I just don’t want to share my partner. I cannot and will not continue to do that.

I've already told you, that if you would rather be with him, then you can be. I'll step away and be out of your life permanently. You haven't left me yet, or decided to break up our marriage so you must still either want to be in my life, or you can't decide what it is you truly want. If you can't tell me honestly that you want to be with me and only me, then this limbo state we're in isn't what I need or want.

You’ve already lied to me twice about him being out of the picture. I cannot and will not tolerate that anymore. I will ask you now, since we spoke on Sunday after not going to the Red Lion pub, have you called him? Or rather, how many times have you called him? I haven’t checked our phone logs/bill, but I’d be foolish to think you haven’t. If that’s the case, here’s what I need to say. I shouldn’t have to ask for your phone, I shouldn’t have to check our phone bill/logs…you should be volunteering to share, to show your accountability, to help me feel like I can trust you again.

I’m getting out of infidelity – with or without you. If you wish to remain my partner then you have a short window to make that clear to me. You need to verbally and very clearly tell me that you want me, and that you agree to the conditions like total accountability, absolutely no contact with OM (brewery is off limits, even if you have to tell your general manager what's happened and why), and continue therapy and/or we do couples counseling. Do that and convince me you are on board through your actions, and I might start believing we have a real future not just a continuation of the state we've been in. Just remember that I’m content with my present decision because having a goal is better than feeling the pain of sharing you, and the further along I go the less inclined I will be to turn back.

I considered a trial separation, a few months where I lived somewhere else and we try and work through this, but I don’t think that would help. The last 2 months have been up and down, with glimmers of good moments, and a lot of anxious days, restless nights and heartbreak. It’s at this point, that I need to separate myself from this situation and move on unless you can commit to the changes I've discussed here.

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If you can't or won't, or don't agree with what I've brought to you today, then I’ll give you rent for next month. I’ll call our building management to determine how we can break the lease should you want to move out of here. You can stay on my insurance until after you’ve gotten a post-operation check up for your respiratory issues. Lilith (our cat) can stay on my insurance in perpetuity, and I’ll still pay for her food. I will keep the honda, and I will pay you for the Krampus (yes, I'm a holiday performer in the winter months) costume. I’ll pack my things and be out of here as soon as possible, and if there are things that need to be handled before you move out of the apartment such as painting, fixing holes, etc. I’ll come back and help.

I’m truly sorry it’s come to this, more so because all I wanted was a life and future with you. But now I see I can’t have that anymore.

Pete, this read to me like you’re putting the choice on her. You’re making it her choice to be married. The key point of the sandwich speech is that it’s not her choice. You’ve made a choice - to get out of infidelity - and now it’s on her to scramble to convince you to change your mind. So my cut at your version might go something like this

I still love you, even after everything that's happened here. I always saw us together and I still want that to be possible. With that said, I've realized that losing you and not having you in my life would hurt, what is worse is sharing you with someone else. While you are in your relationship with him, then at best I’m sharing you, and I cannot and will not continue to do that.

You’ve already lied to me twice about him being out of the picture. I can only conclude that the affair is not over - that I’m still sharing you. Therefore, I am getting myself out of infidelity. I considered a trial separation, a few months where I lived somewhere else and we try and work through this, but I don’t think that would help. The last 2 months have been up and down, with glimmers of good moments, and a lot of anxious days, restless nights and heartbreak. I won’t share you and I won’t be your backup plan. I need to separate myself from this situation and move on.

I've already told you, that if you would rather be with him, then you can be. Just not as my wife.

I’m going to begin the process of emotionally detaching from you. At the right time, I’ll begin the legal process as well.

If you do wish to remain my partner then you have a short window to make that clear to me. You need to verbally and very clearly SHOW me that you want me, and that you agree to the conditions like total accountability, absolutely no contact with OM (brewery is off limits, even if you have to tell your general manager what's happened and why), and continue therapy. Do that and convince me you are on board through your actions, and I might start believing we have a real future not just a continuation of the state we've been in. Just remember that I’m content with my present decision because having a goal is better than feeling the pain of sharing you, and the further along I go the less inclined I will be to turn back.

I think that’s kind of it. You say this, and you go get the bread and the mayo.

If she begs to stop you or whatever, then you can ask her about the other phone calls. If she says ok it’s over, then you can talk about the rent and the cat. But otherwise, if she is vague or unclear or "needs more time", Bigger already told you how to handle that.

Spend a few minutes reading up on the 180 in the Healing Library (including the FAQs), because you’ll be implementing it after this speech. Pete, you can’t be bluffing here, you have to really be moving on to go this route.

I'm with Frank on the cleaned up version there. Bigger has been beating the no drama drum and I agree with him. It seemed like you injected a little bit of drama into the sandwich speech and Frank edited it out. Now is the time for clinical and matter of fact. You're done. You're not waiting for her to make up your mind because your mind is already made. You're accepting no less than 100% commitment and effort. If she wants to salvage this, then she needs demonstrate it. You drive the bus now.

[This message edited by Pogre at 9:50 PM, Thursday, July 9th]

You're done. You're not waiting for her to make up your mind because your mind is already made

Exactly this. Pete, this is a breakup speech. You don’t ask her how many times she’s called him because at this point it doesn’t matter. You’re setting her free, right? You just told her she can see him if she wants. You don’t need to know anymore. That’s the point we’re trying to make here.

[This message edited by Letmebefrank at 9:56 PM, Thursday, July 9th]

Yes I agree with the others. There’s almost an air of you asking for permission to leave.

One thing I had to learn, (and it took me a couple months of doing the same shit you and Pogre did in the beginning) is that WS don’t give a shit unless the language is much more forceful.
I wouldn’t even include words that give her options.
If you’ve already caught her still talking or whatever with him, then my truncated statements to build around would be:

Despite you seeing the pain you are causing me, you continue to interact with your affair partner. I have no other choice but to believe you get off on it. My own self respect and dignity just can’t stand for that. I am leaving and starting the process of divorce.

I would leave anything out about the car or insurance or the cat etc. stick to the issue at hand. Deal with the rest later.