SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I honestly don't miss anything that I've "lost".

Maybe this is where the rubber meets the road.... IOW, if FD has not "lost" anything, then why the hell NOT cheat?

ETA: and I wonder if his BW feels she "lost" anything?

Look, if it's fine with them then who am I to question? But I think pretty much anyone can look at that sentence and wonder how other WS would read that and come to some pretty effed up conclusions (hey, that guy cheated and didn't "lose" jack, so WTF is my BS so pissy? is the first thing to come to my mind).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 9:01 PM, November 10th, 2020 (Tuesday)]

I honestly don't miss anything that I've "lost".

Maybe this is where the rubber meets the road.... IOW, if FD has not "lost" anything, then why the hell NOT cheat?

I read “not losing anything” in light of the below...

The look of trust in her eyes? I was never worthy of it back then anyway.

...as him saying that what was LOST was false to start with. Just like the statements about tainted memories- Can’t harken back to what was under false pretenses to begin with.

While I understand that this sounds casual, the inverse where the threatened apocalypse of “destroying a WS’ world” by D is construed as pressuring to R- Which he’s eager to avoid.

There are frequent exhortations to BS and WS to accept outcomes and not be tied to a narrow idea of what “should happen.” I understand that FD sounded casual to some, but if he instead expressed that his BW didn’t know what was good for her and she couldn’t possibly survive without his love, he would’ve received a whole different set of daggers. He has to express faith that her decision is her best response to the abuse he subjected her to- Anything else continues to drive the outcome for her.

I understand the perception that WS get everything they want out of life, but I don’t see anyone who’s excited to be posting here. If our goal is healing though, is the final answer that a WS’ only acceptable outcome is a life of misery? Because that doesn’t sound like healing. And if that’s the only truly equal outcome, then what are we to make of “New Beginnings?”

Yes, JBWD, I agree.

And this, gmc

Maybe this is where the rubber meets the road.... IOW, if FD has not "lost" anything, then why the hell NOT cheat?

Not to speak for OP but my take: Because he hit rock bottom. Because he realized he wasn’t authentic to begin with. I don’t think dysfunctional behavior exists in a vacuum. And in my case, my H and I both hid ourselves in many ways. So no, we don’t mourn the people we were, but I think we have a different perspective being MHs. Maybe forgettableDad and his wife have that same kind of mutual empathy of their own, for their own reasons.

And don't tell people what they can overcome in life. That's incredibly arrogant. What about rape victims? Can they overcome that 'mountain' and who are you to tell them they can. At least I leave it to them to speak.

Yes. They can. I've listened a couple of months ago to a talk by a woman who survived quite a brutal rape. She was talking about people comparing rape to murder. And she said that, for her, the comparison made it harder to figure out how to survive and how to thrive afterwards. I spent my time in the army in my country on active duty. I saw four of my friends drive a tank over 100kg of TNT then explode... they, well, you know..

Overcoming trauma is hard work - hard f*cking work. Some people break under it, unfortunately, but we should want to help them or at least hope they can help themselves.

Incredibly insensitive to say 'misery loves company' about a thread where betrayeds are pouring their hearts out

Wait, what? I was talking about a thread opened by Micky on the Wayward forum.

having a long marriages means you know the person even when they're experiencing something you know less than nothing about

No. You're wrong. She said herself, she knew something was wrong. She knew I was lying. In many ways (we've discovered through therapy) her issues and mine complimented each other. None of it lessens the trauma obviously but to say that our marriage through 6 years of lying was simply perfect would be false.

IOW, if FD has not "lost" anything, then why the hell NOT cheat?

The one thing I really lost gmc is my ability to compartmentalize and ignore my actions. I don't miss that. In the end, I shouldn't have had an affair and I shouldn't have lied to my wife before that because it's the wrong thing to do. It has nothing to do with losing things or gaining things. It's just not the person that I want to be.

In general. I think people have a misunderstanding regarding what I (and probably at least some of the others who cheated) consider "good memories". I spent six years lying to my wife and it ate me. The three months of the affair, I drank heavily every day and smoked a packet nearly every day. Most mornings I started by throwing up. Most lunch breaks at work I spent in my car in a catatonic state. The time I spent with my kids was time filled with more lies. I look back and I see our wedding day as... well, I've got no words to describe the despair I feel when I think of it. But in between and even through some of it, yes, I had good days. And so did she. With each other, with the kids. No amount of rewriting will change that fact. So yes, the good times we actually had, those memories hold. 20 years is a long time, not all of it was bad.

And no, I truly don’t believe there can ever be trust like you had before. Not ever.

I agree. The "trust" we shared before was based on lies. I rather have her trust me most of the time and need to verify when she feels distrust but with me being honest than have blind trust and me being a liar. Trust can be built and she feels the same or else there's no point in staying together. And I expect that if she won't be able to build her trust then our marriage won't survive. It's a leap of faith. I'm very grateful that she's taken it. It's going to take time - most likely the rest of our lives.

People can change if they want to. If we do the work. There's no guarantee that the relationship we destroyed will be there to heal. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be better people.

then what are we to make of “New Beginnings?”

My therapist (an amazing person by the way) used to say that love is an ability. We have loved. We were loved. We can love and be loved again. That's why we do the work.

Evidently betrayeds are expected to find happiness after trauma and depression but which waywards couldn't even in happy marriages. But they're here to tell betrayeds to just be happy after involuntary losing everything. And they did lose everything.

Good stuff. Really good stuff. You just hit on the abusive nature of adultery quite well here.

I know she's strong. I know I'm strong. And I know life goes on.

Reads like pablum from some vacuous self-help book written by a therapist.

There are far worse things than being betrayed by your partner. Not many worse things mind you but all mountains - except death - are surmountable.

A lot of waywards seem to say this either here or to their betrayed partners. It's one of the odder statements my WW said. I think she thought she was helping. She wasn't.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:29 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

A lot of waywards seem to say this either here or to their betrayed partners. It's one of the odder statements my WW said. I think she thought she was helping. She wasn't.

Yeah...if I have to go to "Well at least my kids didn't die" for something to be worse...no, not helpful.

Reads like pablum from some vacuous self-help book written by a therapist.

Hahaha, given the lack of anything else in that quote I'll take the ad hominem as a tacit acknowledgement that my point stands. So thank you.

I will, for future reference, attempt to curb my use of cliches I guess. Wouldn't want to end up repeating banalities like some lost little boy in the woods.

@dee

If that's what you took, that's what you took *shrug*

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 4:13 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

FD,

Good for you for sticking through this topic.

There's a few nuggets of insight to be gleaned.

Lost in all of this though is what I believe was your genuine intent to want to relate that you have grown and worked on your M.

Good topic and glad you started it. I bit my tongue big time on a few of the posts.

Gasp, gotta catch my breath!

Thank you!

I'll take the ad hominem as a tacit acknowledgement that my point stands. So thank you.

Ad hominem is criticizing or attacking someone's personality. I was specifically critiquing the banality of the writing.

EDIT TO ADD: Maybe I should have urged you to go deeper than "I'm okay, you're okay" but I was in a bad mood. In any case, I would urge you to go deeper than this. I don't think it's a bad observation as far as it goes. It just doesn't tell you very much.

But to your point, if you find yourself thinking of yourself as a little lost boy in the woods, stop it. It seems to be used as a trope by WW's more often, for whatever reason, but the analogy works for either gender.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:17 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

The one thing I really lost gmc is my ability to compartmentalize and ignore my actions

That is wonderful..... and I think you know that's not at all what I was talking about.

Bottom line is that it sounds to me that having an A may have prompted some hard work for both you and your BS, that has resulted in some welcome changes (and yay for that!). Yet you say you have "lost" NOTHING.

Tho a BS, I'll flip this to my own sitch. I lost plenty by virtue of my WH's cheating. The list is very very very long. However, I can also - despite his not being "R material" and his not doing the work - see a plethora of things I have (through some damn HARD fucking work) learned & gained. I can find gratitude for the changes I've made w/in myself. I can see the ways in which my work has helped bring me to this moment.... to today... to an ability to cope with the hardships of life differently. And I love myself -and the world - differently than I used to.

HOWEVER - just bc I can see some "silver linings" in the dark clouds infidelity has brought to my life, does not - for one damn minute - negate the fact that I am still soaking fucking wet in a hailstorm. It does not negate all that I lost bc of my WH's lying and cheating and stealing (yes, that's the way I see it) years of my life, my reality.

So, I stand my my earlier comment.... if the only thing a WS "loses" by having an A is their unhealthy coping mechanisms or other unhealthy ways of behaving, then why the hell NOT cheat?

Thank you for sharing this post . I totally get what you are writing about...and it looks like your wife gets it too...which is all that counts!!

I am a BW times 2. Once when I was a young mother with a toddler who could barely make ends meet when my 1st H left me for the adultery co-conspirator. And again...as an empty nester SAHW. I can't speak for ALL BW's...as some on here are doing...I can only speak for ME. I DID overcome the trauma...TWICE. I am here to say that IT CAN BE DONE. I never LOST anything about ME. I am the SAME kind, compassionate, honorable woman I was when both of my H's put me in infidelity HELL. I pulled myself out...once on my own...and once on the shoulders of the man who put me in it. Either way...I am OUT of infidelity and IN LOVE with my H . MY CHOICE!!!

You hit a nerve with some people on here who are still dealing with so much pain. But for those of us who are no longer dealing with it...I want to say that I appreciate your perspective . There are MANY women like me and your wife who feel the same way...they just don't stay on this site as much. Please don't be discouraged to write YOUR truth. Just like in my posts...those that don't agree with MY truth have learned to just ignore my posts...and hopefully they will be respectful of your perspective on here too. I do NOT want my H to be mired in the muck of what he DID. I WANT him to rise up and be the H I DESERVE!!! Your wife seems to understand this as well . Keep looking FORWARD Dear Sir...you are NOT defined by your bad choices in the past. Give your wife her "happily ever after"...no matter what that looks like. She will return the favor . THAT is what makes a HAPPY and HEALTHY M...when BOTH spouses GIVE to each other .

then why the hell NOT cheat?

I wish I had an easy answer to give you gmc.. but I don't.

Been thinking a lot about your question.

I think "what do you miss" or "what you have lost", for me, is the wrong question. Instead I tried asking myself today, "was it worth it?" Gaining the insight, getting to be a better person, being able to be a better partner, father, etc. Were those things worth the lies, the affair and the cost. And the answer for that, for me, is no. But that doesn't matter. I can't change my decisions or actions and I can't unpay the price.

I don't think infidelity brings or has a silver lining to either partner. If you asked me even a week before I started the affair if I would ever cheat on my wife I would laugh in your face. But I did.

I wouldn't thank my 6-years-ago self for making the decisions that led me to find help. I would slap him silly and tell him to go find help. Not that I would listen, I couldn't. I didn't know how to. And that's another thing I had to accept (my therapist helped me there a lot). The choices I made? Those were the best choices I could make at the time because of who I was. I spent a long time in therapy learning the difference between choosing out of the person I want to be and choosing out of the person that I grew up to be.

stealing (yes, that's the way I see it) years of my life, my reality.

I'm sorry that you see it that way. I don't know you or your x-partner and I don't know the dynamic of your relationship. I think my wife saw it this way for a while; especially while watching me destroy myself and our family. But things did change. And, I suspect, she sees things differently because we are working together to build and to be together. Things do change. Things can change.

if the only thing a WS "loses" by having an A is their unhealthy coping mechanisms

I didn't lose my unhealthy coping mechanisms by having an affair. My affair was part of my unhealthy mechanisms (I would go further and say a form of metal illness). I went to find help because I realized there was something very deeply wrong with me. I thought of suicide. I came close to acting on it. For me, my affair wasn't the sunshine and unicorns some people on internet forums think it is *shrug* - and I suspect for those who come here and those that trek through this desert, their affair wasn't rainbows either. And even, even for the cheaters that are truly narcissistic, narcissism is a severe mental disorder, I wouldn't envy them.

This website, after all, is called "Surviving Infidelity" not "Surviving Being Betrayed".

then why the hell NOT cheat?

So, to bring it to close.. I don't know the answer. I cheated. But I do know that only a very broken person would need to ask themselves that.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 3:38 PM, November 15th (Sunday)]

This website, after all, is called "Surviving Infidelity" not "Surviving Being Betrayed".

Aren't they the same thing? ^^^^^^^^^

Aren't they the same thing? ^^^^^^^^^

Well, that's a good question then. I don't think so. Why do you think they are?

Are you seriously saying infidelity isn't a betrayal? wow

Nope.

What he’s saying is that the Waywards on here haven’t been betrayed.

[This message edited by JBWD at 10:37 PM, November 16th (Monday)]

THANK YOU ONEBIGLIE FOR every single word you typed. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You speak my language.

What he’s saying is that the Waywards on here haven’t been betrayed.

I find this an odd thing to say. Over the years,many former waywards, who have done the work on themselves,have stated that the first person they betrayed was themselves.