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I don’t even have words for how upsetting it is to me that you are going through this. When I think back to the 2.5 months where I knew in my soul there was something going on between my husband (the boss) and his subordinate I literally shake and cortisol courses through my system. It is life destroying. I have never and likely will never get over this and my husband did « everything right ». There is no money in world, certainly not a bonus, worthy of putting yourself through this. These months will scar you for life. Pleeease get her out of there.

Specifically, she should get severance. If you go to HR or she does they will be desperate to address the situation. If you go to the OBS she will be desperate to end the situation. You need these people’s help. A toxic boss/employee combo is almost impossible to blow up unless they are outed in some form. This guy, the boss, is likely terrified of your wife at this point. That does not mean he will blow her off. Quite the opposite. He will do anything he can to keep her happy, because she can destroy him now. It was likely a fling to him, though it was everything to your wife. If they are seeing each other they are « intimate » whether in conversation or physically. It is a connection you will look back on and wish to god you had stopped.

I think what the person who mentioned having been involved in « conversations » about at work, with a boss/employee situation is kinda true and possibly not true. The company deeply fears a lawsuit but sometimes the boss brings income to the company and the employee is more expendable. They WANT to keep the boss and lose the employee. They just don’t know if they can get away with it.

What my husband did to address the situation was put her on a 6 week paid FMLA.(and yes this is scummy behavior, as the boss he SHOULD HAVE been the one to suffer the consequences not her, but as in your situation the female AP employee had initiated the physical part so there was some semblance of cover). During her « leave » negotiations ensued for how to find her a different job, lateral or up. When that broke down (because the AP refused to work for anyone but my husband) they arranged for her to leave the company with 6 months severance and a promise to support her in her job search.

I am sorry to sound so intense, it is just really hard to see someone—you—doing something that will cause you so much future pain. LIkely your wife has some made up story for why you shouldn’t tell the OBS. DO NOT BELIEVE HER. The OBS will blow the thing up and then HR will give your wife a soft landing. Your wife most likely can’t help herself right now, she’s lost and will only begin the process of coming out of the fog when you get her out of that office.

During my husband’s AP FMLA leave she began to threaten him that he couldn’t take her job away. He let her come back for three days. I got wind of it and showed up at the office and screamed and revealed the particulars to all their coworkers. After that HR obviously took over and got her out of there. If I had not showed up and blown it up it would probably still be going on today 8 years later. Please blow this nonsense up.

I want to share one more thing: A story I have shared numerous times here on SI over the years.

About 10-15 years ago I managed a small team of people in a large IT company. One of my subordinates had an affair with a colleague in a completely different department, and even in a different building from where we were. His wife found out, and he ended the affair there and then.
I know the affair was over for a fact because both the man and the affair-partners were/are good friends of mine. I wasn’t aware of the affair, but both confided in me after it was discovered and ended.
I also know for a fact that the WH truly avoided all contact with the OW, as did she avoid contact with him. He didn’t eat in the cafeteria, didn’t socialize in work and so on. This was relatively easy since she was located in another building and they didn’t need to interact on a daily or regular basis.

About half a year later the OW changed jobs. Left the company and moved. The man told me a couple of days later that once his wife knew the OW was no longer at the company was a watershed moment in their marriages recovery. Up unto that point she hadn’t been capable of mentally letting go of the fear of the affair restarting or going underground. It was only when the OW and WH were separated by more distance that she could start committing to reconciliation.

This despite the WH being totally committed to the affair being over.
This despite the OW changing jobs, but still being in the same area per se. Had they wanted to hook up it was only a ten minute drive.

I think you might be experiencing the same thing. That despite your willingness to reconcile and even if your wife was 100% on-board… It won’t happen while they work together. Even if your wife has a repulsion for OM you carry a fear that what has happened once can happen again.

Thanks Bigger. This was actually quite helpful.

Peace:

First, sorry you're going through this.

Next some questions I didn't see addressed in your posts.

-Have you visited a family law attorney to discuss what divorce looks like in your state? (I assume you're in the U.S.) I would highly advise this in case your WW has taken the affair underground, turns out if was an actual PA (do you have or determined a dealbreaker for yourself?) or your WW, in the future, comes to you with the ILYBNILWY speech. Most initial lawyer consults are free or rather inexpensive ($2-300.00 usually credited toward the retainer if you hire them fully) It would be a good investment to know what your options are in the future.

-You can decide whether to tell your WW that you visited an attorney... either before or after the consult. May help with any "fogginess" (that "she admitted that she has fallen out of love with me") that your WW may be experiencing knowing that you have at least explored divorce options.

-You state that she is due for annual bonus in a couple of months, and afterwards will leave the job, correct? Has she started to update her resume, sending them out and seeking interviews? Or is she just going to quit and let you be the breadwinner for awhile (also another question to explore with attorney...potential alimony/child support issues) Or has she done nothing and hopes you forget about this?

-It's clear this trauma is affecting you and your "losing your mind," add that with your wife's defensiveness and self-pity... can you take a "break"? Have family or friends or an affordable extended-stay hotel that you can stay at for a week or so? Let your wife (and you, of course) see what its like to live like a single parent for a bit. Give your mind a rest and detach from her, tell her you're leaving for a week or so, that you'll pick up kids for dinner on Wednesday, and go. Tell her to not contact you unless its an emergency about the kids. You say she's been staying and hiding at work late to avoid you and dealing with the situation she put ya'll in ..."well here you go, dear, see you next week. Oh BTW kids get home or picked up from school at Xpm, please make arrangements. Also, I'll facetime the kids every night at 8pm and will pick them up for dinner Wednesday at 6pm." Let her live like a single mom for a bit with no immediate support around the house and let her deal with the kids' questions that will surely be asked. Your kids are old enough that they must know things are different in the house, even though they might not have the reason or details. See how she answers those questions... does she re-write your marital history, does she blame you and throw you under the bus... or does she step up and say "we're going through some problems and it's your mother's fault." It's up to you if you want to discuss beforehand what she'll talk to the kids about... but she needs to understand that she's the villain in this and if ya'll divorce, eventually and when age-appropriate, you'll tell the kids the real reason why you and her split. She needs to consider how, in the future, her actions will affect her relationship with the children.

As for you, concentrate on work, go to the gym or exercise every day, stay away from alcohol/drugs, eat clean, call up some old friends and reconnect, go out with some buddies to watch sports or play poker... set aside your feelings of trying "to fix this" ---you need a break, detach and try to learn you can't fix your wife and can't control the outcome of this.

Your wife is going to complain, oh, is she going to complain... "Why do you get a vacation and I'm stuck here with the kids for a week!?!?" Just tell her, its obvious she's tired of talking about this, that your tired of being stuck in this position, spinning your wheels with her, and you are also tired of just talking about this and its time to take some action to see what one possible future path looks like if ya'll divorce. Again, may bring some further clarity to her.

Make sure you tell her (and document) that its not permanent, you'll be back in 7-10 or so days (so she can't claim abandonment) Run this by your attorney first as well. But this is actually for the both of you... you need to see how you feel being away from the kids for a bit. No one wants to be a parent half the time, but can you make it? If you stay, you'll be eating the shyte sandwich as it is called here... maybe you can learn you can live with eating the sandwich for the kids' sake. Or you might decide you can make it for 9 more years (until the youngest leaves the house) and then leave her. I don't recommend this, time is a resource that you can never recover. Your 43 now, much better to be back in the single market at 43, rather than 52... ask me how I know, I'm 52.

[This message edited by NukeZombie at 9:30 PM, Sunday, November 26th]

Your wife is going to complain, oh, is she going to complain... "Why do you get a vacation and I'm stuck here with the kids for a week!?!?" Just tell her, its obvious she's tired of talking about this, that your tired of being stuck in this position, spinning your wheels with her, and you are also tired of just talking about this and its time to take some action to see what one possible future path looks like if ya'll divorce. Again, may bring some further clarity to her.

This is great advice. Funny enough, D-Day was the day i returned from a week long motorcycle trip. Time to plan my next trip.

It’s been a few weeks. Just wanted to check and see how you’re doing.

Thanks for checking in, dontlookbackinanger.

The past several weeks have been a roller coaster of positive and negative emotions for me. There is the high when we spend time together doing something fun (like sex), but then when I'm alone and brooding the negative thoughts are overwhelming. I guess with enough time, the negative ones fade a bit and stop bothering me so much.

One recent positive development though. Over the last month, i've been pissed about my WW apparent aloofness to my pain and in general getting defensive and combative when pushed into a corner. Couple of days back, she finally told me her side of the story.

For quick recap, my WW was having an affair with her boss and was caught red handed by me. She is still employed at the same place and sees her boss everyday. She says, she had a very hard time dealing with the sudden severing of the relationship with her AP. It took her a quite a while to move out of the fog and that's her claim why she wasn't there for me when i needed her the most. Though, now she claims she is almost over her feelings for the AP and is ready to engage with me in a meaningful way.

On the positive side, for the first time we had a calm conversation over some topics that used to put her in the spot before. For example: How she put the children at risk with her actions. How her EA was fast heading towards a PA. The loss of innocence of our marriage, etc.

On the down side, i didn't realize the depth of her feelings for the AP. I was assuming to be a fling, fun on the side sort of a thing. Though not a competition, it makes a feel a little shitty.

How her EA was fast heading towards a PA

Perhaps it’s not that important to you, but how are you certain she’s being fully truthful and there was no PA? In the vast majority of cases, EA + proximity = PA.

There is zero chance of a successful R without 100% truth.

You will never be able to heal,with her working with him. Especially considering she has/had deep feelings for him. And..neither will she. She won't be able to heal.

Why hasn't she found another job? Why haven't you made that a requirement?

Does his wife know?

PeaceOff,

You wrote, She has also been quite open about how she was the one who made the first move and what she felt with him, she hasn't felt with anyone before. Also that she had fallen out of love with me for a while now.

You have to prepare yourself for your WW never loving you again as she once did, or might never have. So even if you save the marriage and it could be worth it to maintain a good home for your kids, you may end up emotionally empty.

Why hasn't the BOSS been fired since he has violated the restriction on boss/subordinate relations? WHY DOES YOUR WW HAVE TO QUIT?

The proximity makes it highly likely this was a physical affair as well, does she deny lunches together etc?

Get a polygraph.

[This message edited by survrus at 1:41 AM, Tuesday, December 19th]

- Agreed to change jobs ASAP. She's due for her annual bonus and increment in a couple of months, so would be foolhardy to resign immediately without another job in hand.

I know every cent counts, but with this, you have put a dollar value on the possible success/failure of your M.

It looks like you have prioritised the bonus over your M.

If you had really wanted to have a chance at a successful M, then your WW will need to have total NC with her AP. Every day that she has some kind of exposure (even a little peek at her AP, or the comfort that she is still working in the same environment) lessens your chance at a successful R, as it will keep the little embers of feeling for her AP alive. If not careful, the embers could grow back into a fire....

PeaceOff, since you never had any serious romantic relationships with anyone other than wife, then you've never experienced a major break up and been through the process of trying to fall out of love with someone.

Let me tell you this: it is impossible to get over someone when you are interacting with them on a regular basis. Any time my heart's been broken, it's taken me months to not think about the person every single day... and all it took was one phone call or one chance meeting to set back my progress of healing to day 0.

Your discovery didn't flip a switch in her heart, and it's not like the affair fizzled out on its own or her boss dumped her. Your wife is still in love with her boss, even if she doesn't admit it. She is actively pining for him every single day.

If the affair is over-- which I seriously doubt-- it is only because the boss is concerned for his own marriage and/or position at the company if the affair were to come to light. More likely than not, they've simply taken the affair underground, which isn't hard to do, given that they have ample time and opportunity to communicate in person without leaving a speck of evidence for you to find.

Also, my ex's first affair with with a coworker. One of the biggest regrets of my life is that I didn't demand he leave his job as a condition of remaining married. I doubt he would've quit, but at least I would've known right then and there that he wasn't committed to the marriage and I could've saved myself 3 years of pure Hell.

Lastly, contrary to what your wife has led you to believe, she does have a "big sexual appetite"... it's just that the object of her lust is her boss, and not you. I'm not telling you this to be cruel or to demean you; I'm pointing this out because you seem to be taking a lot of blame on yourself. Presumably, your wife knew that you weren't the most "emotionally expressive" guy when she married you. I'm also willing to bet that you probably express your love in a myriad of ways, such as holding down the fort at home so she could pursue her career ambitions.

In fact, a lot of cheaters will complain that they didn't feel loved or needed enough at home. That's because most of them are self-centered people who are black holes in constant need of excitement and validation. Do not let your wife make you feel insufficient or goad you into doing an elaborate "pick-me dance" to win back her affections. If she wants to remain in this marriage, she needs to do the heavy lifting and fight to keep you.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:56 PM, Tuesday, December 19th]

Wanted to add a few things, and a question.

Her leaving the job is an absolute requirement. We both agree on that. Since she is in a senior management role, it will take her some time to get an appropriate role elsewhere. However, I've made pretty clear to her, job hunting should be her top priority now.

I've read several folks say "Do you know the whole story...." "Is she 100% honest.....", etc. How does a BS ever know for sure? I'm triangulating information between what she says, my observations during that timeline and any other evidence i can find. Maybe polygraph is one way.

Path to at least what she believes to be the truth:

- She writes an exhaustive timeline, including all details of everything. Who initiated what, all sex acts, etc.
- Give her a short deadline to write this. No more than 7 days.
- She *reads* the timeline to you. You get a copy.
- She agrees to a polygraph attesting to the veracity and completeness of the timeline
- In the parking lot prior to the polygraph, offer her one last chance to disclose anything else. You only promise to wait 30 days to process what she discloses before making any decisions
- In the polygraph, in addition to being asked about the veracity of the written timeline, she’s ALSO asked whether there’s been any sexual contact whatsoever, with anyone other than you and (known) OM since you two were exclusive. Also have her asked whether there’s been ANY contact with OM, aside from a purely professional business context.

I fully agree her continuing to work with OM is begging for more pain. You also need to think of what choices/consequences she will face if the poly indicates deception.

Sure hope, for your sake, you follow thru on this.

She understands she needs a new job. Has she started looking yet?

Does his wife know?

However, I've made pretty clear to her, job hunting should be her top priority now.

It should have been her priority a month and a half ago. You should not have to be making these demands. Let's hope that she starts to really understand the work that is in front of her.

Has she been proactive consistently, otherwise, since discovery?

PeaceOff,

When my WW was working with OM1 I just sucked it up becasuse I needed to go to work myself to create a life and career.

However it was like finding out you have cancer and then having going to work to maintain your health insurance.

Don't neglect eating well and exersize while you have this added stress.

Tell obs. Also consider telling hr.

I let my wife keep a job with minimal contact with ap for basically a year and it was a massive fuck up on my part that basically kept me in limbo for a year.

Though, now she claims she is almost over her feelings for the AP and is ready to engage with me in a meaningful way.

.

The above line is really a problem to me.

Having built a company with a not insignificant number of employees, I can state without reservation this would cause alarms to sound through the hallway, consults with counsel and the removal of the the participates especially the superior. Sexual harassment actions are just not worth trouble.

Want to watch some fireworks, send a overnight/registered or couriered letter to the correct person in HR, his superior and to the president of the company (personal signatured required). Or even better just a notification from your attorney demanding preservation of all documents, emails, memos and correspondents between HR, your wife, the OM and all executives regarding your wife and OM.

The later will cause a reaction worthy of popcorn and milk duds.

[This message edited by hardyfool at 2:27 AM, Sunday, December 24th]

Or even better just a notification from your attorney demanding preservation of all documents, emails, memos and correspondents between HR, your wife, the OM and all executives regarding your wife and OM.

I absolutely love this idea. HF is absolutely right. I’m the founder of a very successful business as well, and I guarantee receiving something like this would be all hands on deck in the c-suite.