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I don’t have answers for you.I don’t know her, and have no idea if it’s possible or not.

I only know you say you aren’t ready to make a decision today. When you are ready you will know it. And I just find it helpful to have check in times set for yourself so you can truly let go of the struggle of deciding. That is just where I see you being held back now. That’s why I wouldn’t put decision labels on them, I would just use them as a way to defer the struggling to decide. I am not saying defer the decision if you find clarity, or hang in there or anything like that. What I am saying is try and put it away for periods.

It could look like two days of deferment right now. Or one day. Say to yourself "I will defer any thinking about deciding and let go of that struggle until Saturday" (or whenever) Then on Saturday, sit down and write for a bit on your thinking. Then put it away again until your next "appointment".

When you find yourself struggling to decide in between appointments, change the thought process. The enormity of the decision likely has you frozen and feeling hopeless. It’s a way of taking control back, at least over your rest.

Again this doesn’t mean the decision won’t just land on you. I am talking about the tug of war in your brain. They say happiness comes when you aren’t reaching for it. I think so does clarity. Its hard to let go when everything is hanging in the balance.

The rest of the time I would focus on what you and your kids need in the moment. Keep doing your therapy, and keep looking inward for your healing. It’s not unusual to feel like you giving up is going to make the final decision to unravel the marriage, you have been holding it all together for so long it’s scary to stop.

This is why IHS is hard because to do it you almost have to be comfortable with simple co-existence, and as long as you are constantly looking for the decision, your eyes will still be on her, waiting. And that’s only going to keep driving the internal struggle.

I have heard several little stories that you have told where you have been able to let go and enjoy something, the more you can do that the more manageable this will be. That’s why I suggest deferring the analysis paralysis to very focused bursts of time.

But, I am with everyone here in saying don’t let more manageable slip into complacency. It’s a tightrope you are on while already exhausted. We are rooting for you hulk.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:34 AM, Wednesday, February 7th]

Thanks about the advice on intervals, I’ll think about it. It’s not clear to me that I can somehow accept what my mind and body is throwing at me and do that. I think you need to be at level 8 to pull that off.

Where I’m stuck right now is around authenticity and effort. And I know we just beat that to death, but I’ve come out of it confused. I think some degree of intentionality and effort is needed in balance with authenticity, even in the best of times. I’m working on making working out a part of my daily routine right now, and I enjoy it. But it’s definitely taking some intentionality to get this started and even if I get some momentum behind it and make it an "authentic" part of my life that I just enjoy doing, we all know there is a huge risk of falling off the wagon and stopping, so some degree of intentionality is needed to maintain.

This seems to me like such an obvious parallel to my situation. She seems to me right now like the person who pines for the swimsuit body but can’t find the motivation or consistency to acheive it. I’ve fought back against the phrase that she needs to "move mountains" for me, but this seems like where it has some degree of relevancy. She needs to find some balance of finding authenticity and effort towards me, and I’m sure that would be an unsustainable effort in the long haul. But in the interim, where we could just fall apart, that sprint is needed. That’s what I think anyway.

I hardly ever use the phrase "I deserve that", and I cringe when people say it to me. But I deserve that. I fucking do.

And regarding the "hammer":

My whole outlook on life, my worldview if you will, just doesn’t align with that. Deep deep waters here. It was never supposed to need to come to that. I have deeply internalized the message that kindness leads to repentance and forgiveness grows love. Like that is the "two dream in" stuff from Inception for me. I don’t want a life (or a wife) where that isn’t true.

T/j...there is an excellent example of someone being passive aggressive in this thread, above..Good Lord..

This isn’t helpful or necessary. Please refrain from making comments like this and focus on the OP.

Given your world view which is different than mine, I think our misalignment in the "spiritual" elements of life and your specific situation prevents me from having the right guidance for you. I am stepping back because I don’t want to be offensive. I will keep up with your post because I am emotionally invested. I truly hope you and your wife find what you need together for a happy life.

You do deserve that, IH.

This seems to me like such an obvious parallel to my situation. She seems to me right now like the person who pines for the swimsuit body but can’t find the motivation or consistency to achieve it. I’ve fought back against the phrase that she needs to "move mountains" for me, but this seems like where it has some degree of relevancy. She needs to find some balance of finding authenticity and effort towards me, and I’m sure that would be an unsustainable effort in the long haul. But in the interim, where we could just fall apart, that sprint is needed. That’s what I think anyway.

It's paragraphs like that that confuse me about your goals with IHS. How is she supposed to give you space yet show effort and authenticity towards you at the same time? They are by definition impossible to do at the same time. Pure damned if she does or damned if she doesn't situation. I'm not saying that the IHS isn't what you both might need at this point. I think it is. It gives both members space to heal themselves without stress over the ruins the relationship. I just worry that you are still expecting, or at least aspiring for, the outcome to have you closer to each other when the opposite is going to be the case. Especially the longer the separation lasts.

I needed that intentionality before, she failed to give it for 18 months. IHS is intensive self care, and I hope that she takes the same view for herself. Now it’s either the marriage dies or the faintest sliver of hope that we both come out with enough health to try. I still hear in HikingOut and others stories that R has come out of ashes, but today that is just a mental note for me, a possibility I acknowledge is possible but feels highly unlikely.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 3:02 PM, Wednesday, February 7th]

Terrific insight and advice from hikingout.

This seems to me like such an obvious parallel to my situation. She seems to me right now like the person who pines for the swimsuit body but can’t find the motivation or consistency to acheive it.

Someone who has just had a heart attack will finally get serious about diet and exercise because they've experienced what happens when they kick the can down the road. Before the crisis, the heart attack was a possibility. Afterwards, mortality just got really, really real.

This is why I say that some WSs must experience the consequences of their behavior before they're motivated to take action. If that doesn't jibe with your values - if you want her to do the work without the threat of D looming over her, I get it. You do you. But D, or removal from your inner circle, is a powerful motivator to get one's act together.

Also, I think this is a great time to share my favorite agreement: "Don't take anything personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering."

This is why I say that some WSs must experience the consequences of their behavior before they're motivated to take action. If that doesn't jibe with your values - if you want her to do the work without the threat of D looming over her, I get it. You do you. But D, or removal from your inner circle, is a powerful motivator to get one's act together.

And it’s not like there isn’t room for this idea of justice within my understanding of life, it just hasn’t been my place to meter it out. Which brings me back again to if I choose to D, it will be for me and preserving my life, not as a means of ensuring she sees consequences. That is between her and God.

I was in a different place when I chose to separate. My H was still active in the A and I asked him to either end the A or leave. He was out of the house before the sun set the next day.

This is different. This isn't an emergency. This is a chronic illness. (Possibly worsened by not handling the crisis? I don't know that part of your story.)

IH, have you ever asked your wife what in her mind she has done that is difficult and pushed her to grow outside her current emotional comfort zone to improve intimacy, love, and vulnerability in the relationship that she chose to shatter? Her answer may be interesting. I suspect it would be one of three outcomes. 1) she gives a list of things you’ve never considered or recognized. 2) she lists things you’ve recognized, but just aren’t enough effort. 3) and this would be the saddest, she admits to nothing or very little. But, it might be revealing and things to ponder for both of you.

Ink, I wanted to pop in,and tell you I wish you all the best. I hope you get what you truly need. The best of luck to you.

Thanks, HF. I now forgive you for your insensitive t/j

You do deserve that. And for what it’s worth- I do think she should be authentic, but I also think loving someone authentically means putting forth effort. I am all for her taking a bit of time to work towards better intimacy due to her background, but that is like any journey it means consistency in taking steps.

It’s unclear to me whether she is trying to respect your space in IHS, or if she just isn’t getting it. But I do feel like I have read enough from you to know whatever is happening isn’t enough.

You may not believe this but it was hellfire that encouraged me long ago to show him I wanted him despite ihs, and everything in my being told me that was the wrong move. I did it though, out of clear desperation and she was absolutely right.

All this to say is I am not sure if I’m ihs it is clear what to do. She has asked for room to be authentic, and now you have asked for space for your time and thoughts. She very well be trying to toe the line, after all you feel she is compliant with not reading here and many of us have professed to not be able to do the same.

On the other hand, she did have all the room in the world prior to this and wasn’t taking the opportunity. I trust what you are seeing, but am a bit confused by other things like her wanting to work on the marriage when given ihs or divorce as the option. Is she reliant on you for finances? Is it the kids? Do you have any gut reaction for that???

And yes the breaks are hard to do, it comes with practice but you are pushing yourself for a decision and that is why you are so sensitive when it is brought up on this board. If you want to do IHS and focus on yourself it will require letting go of that struggle so you have space to do the work you need.

Agree with soul sister, this is more of a chronic illness than an emergency. The emergency is being worn out from the struggle. And that’s is the only way I know how to tell you to alleviate it. It does require compartmentalization.

One more thought on authenticity. There was a power imbalance in my marriage long before the affair happened. My husband is assertive and I was far less so.

After dday I wanted things to be more equal and there were times when I was afraid to give an inch because I didn’t want to repeat the cycle of giving up my voice.

My husband wasn’t abusive, nor was he aware the imbalance even existed. It was largely one I had created and didn’t know how to fix or manage.

So we had some of the authenticity confusion too, maybe it’s not in the same way. But, I did do things consistently to try and woo him.I think that is missing and probably doesn’t have anything to do with authenticity but more some sort of preconceived notions that don’t apply after an affair (like equal effort or the man pursues).

I am not sure what moving mountains looks like to you, but I am certain it’s fair and reasonable.

InkHulk, did I offend you?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sure seems like there's some passive-aggressive Mean Girls crap going on (again).

InkHulk, did I offend you?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sure seems like there's some passive-aggressive Mean Girls crap going on (again).

Not at all. I’m honestly oblivious to what you might be referring to. Exactly zero offense from OG to IH. Feel free to PM me if you want to clarify.

OTOSOH, I think that is a good idea. And the reminding her of her effort in the A is a good idea. I just don’t want to talk with her. I don’t want to get the defensiveness and the DARVO and the victim tears from her anymore. And, trust me, I know what that means for the relationship. I do.