SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

sisoon

So, DRS, here are some questions to ask yourself. What feelings led you to see a(n) RA as justified? If you express those feelings directly, will you still think an RA is justified?

To provide further context on how this discussion came about, I want to clarify my stance. This has been more of a thought experiment for me. At the risk of sounding repetitive, I genuinely feel that, given my outlook, principles, and temperament, reconciliation wouldn’t be something worth considering. I’ve elaborated on a variety of reasons in other posts. However, I imagined a hypothetical situation where I ‘had’ to remain with someone who betrayed me, perhaps due to complete financial dependence or similar circumstances.

Given the parameters of this scenario, I reflected on how I might navigate such a situation. Personally, I could only envision surviving under these circumstances by doing one of the following:

A) Living a Sham Marriage: Many couples choose this route. It involves emotionally detaching from your partner while staying civil for the sake of the family. I would adopt a 'don’t ask, don’t tell' style in an ethically non-monogamous (ENM) relationship, seeking to have my needs met elsewhere while working on changing my situation.

B) Reconciliation: The previously mentioned scenario seems suboptimal and depressing. So, would reconciliation under these circumstances actually be preferable, even for someone like me? Perhaps. However, given my character, how could that be achieved? Upon introspection, I concluded that leveling the playing field to some extent would be essential for me to consider this path.

I want you to know that I’m open to what has been expressed in this thread; I take those points on board. I understand that an RA doesn’t exactly level the playing field, and that life is inherently unfair. However, I personally believe that it could be beneficial for me.

This isn’t exactly the same situation, but post-breakup, I had several flings (rebound hookups) that monumentally helped me. While they didn’t heal my wounds, they did awaken my self-esteem, self-worth, and masculinity. I recognize the argument that external validation is not healthy; however, being a victim of infidelity isn’t generally healthy either. Even those who consider themselves fully reconciled can have triggers that come back to haunt them on an annual basis. These are people who have walked the recommended route, done the therapy. Read the books. Yet 10 years later a movie regarding an affair or someone wearing specific perfume can trigger a trauma response. None of this is healthy.

So given this thought experiment and truly thinking this would be my only way to handle things. It led me to the question, what are peoples thoughts generally on revenge affairs morally? I then did some thinking on the moral justification of a revenge affair. From what I’ve seen in this discussion, we haven’t reached a consensus on that point. The more compelling arguments against RAs have primarily come from a pragmatic perspective, suggesting they don’t help anyone in a practical sense. However, I believe we have yet to see persuasive arguments that suggest RAs are inherently immoral.

'Justifiable' is an interesting term. Some people on here would blanketly say: An affair is never justifiable. I'm not sure I truly believe this. As stated in a previous post here, I have little sympathy for someone who's been cheated on it they've dished out years of physical or emotional abuse. Or sexual abuse for that matter. Would I recommend that person did everything they could to get out of the marriage rather than cheat? I would. Would I think the victim of abuse was a bad person for cheating in that scenario, no I would not.

Equally, anecdotally, my friendship circle despises cheaters. An consensus opinion that it's the worst legal thing you can do to someone. They would harshly judge a cheat. When discussing the point on revenge affairs, almost unanimously the opinion was: 'well they should have just divorced but you can't really blame them, their partner would deserve it'

I think I made my post pretty clear, and I'm not saying you ignored it.

You are circling around "moral" and "justified" and other similar concepts.

I think the mere fact that we understand that "revenge" is not "justice" lays the whole thing bare.

At best, it could be a sort of vigilante justice, but it really isn't even that. So skipping past the RA once again, since I really think you are over-thinking whether or not revenge is justice, we can go back to the hall pass.

As I stated on that front, I think it is an offer that demonstrates your wayward partner likely never did and never will support monogamy. It would be used against you as a cudgel and defense of the A. "We are equal now!" which, fun fact, you aren't.

So I once again see negative value to the RA or the Hall Pass for the BS. It doesn't create a more just or more moral relationship. It doesn't foster the values most BS's typically want (monogamy). Either option becomes a tacit condoning of the affair. I believe the moral thing to do, is to rebuke the affair, to rebuke any notion of the validity of an affair (for any reason).

While the BS must accept the A as part of their relationship history, at no point in R do you have to condone the affair. If you have an RA or a hall pass, you lose that "moral high ground" I spoke of in my first post of this thread.

'Justifiable' is an interesting term. Some people on here would blanketly say: An affair is never justifiable. I'm not sure I truly believe this. As stated in a previous post here, I have little sympathy for someone who's been cheated on it they've dished out years of physical or emotional abuse. Or sexual abuse for that matter. Would I recommend that person did everything they could to get out of the marriage rather than cheat? I would. Would I think the victim of abuse was a bad person for cheating in that scenario, no I would not.

I have a hard time with the word "Justifiable" as well.

One of the common SI mantras is "the old marriage is dead, a new one must be built".

The problem that I have is that most times a cheating WS places a BS, without their consent, into an open marriage. If we are to be honest, more times than not the WS loves the arrangement of the one sided open marriage until they are caught.

I find it disingenuous to have all these standards and regulations placed on a BS after the marriage has been blown up after the WS infidelity...during a time when all their world looks like Hiroshima. They don't even know what their marriage is or was...up is down, wrong is right, bad is good.

Of course at some point, if you are going to reconcile then there have to be new rules and boundaries on the relationship. However speaking for myself, there is no way I could have been counted on to hold on to normal thought processes when I was going through my pain.

I find it disingenuous to have all these standards and regulations placed on a BS after the marriage has been blown up after the WS infidelity...during a time when all their world looks like Hiroshima. They don't even know what their marriage is or was...up is down, wrong is right, bad is good.

I don’t think anyone is placing rules and standards on a Bs specifically.

I think most are saying it’s not in the bs’s best interest. Affairs are destructive to those who have them. It creates shame, complications, etc. it does not lead you to your best self, and when you are trying to repair your self esteem it requires continuing to move towards your best self. It’s the only thing that actually will help your wounds. Loving yourself is the goal, so my advice is to do the things that foster that. And regardless of how it feels at the time having an affair takes you very far from that place.

I understand how my husbands affair came to be. It still doesn’t make it any more right than what I did. Spreading the illusion it helps a bs is as dangerous as the discussion surrounding how the babygirl movie sort of promotes empowerment to women by having an affair.

Simply, I would discourage it across the board for anyone. I do not believe it makes anything better for anyone. This site that is here to get people out of infidelity we can not expect its members to condone it.

We are more here to cope with it, understand it. So its not we don’t understand why that inclination for a bs would exist. We just are not under the illusion it would be an improvement to an already precarious situation.

Thisisfine is right in saying think about what you want, because if it’s reconciliation, deciding to have your own affair flies in the face of getting what you say you want.

I personally think of my husband had done it sooner I might have been inclined to call it even and not do any more work on myself. Without that work I believe that we would have been destined towards circling the drain.

The affair was the worst thing I ever did to myself, I just wouldn’t wish it on you or anyone else Traydee. Justifications can always be found if an affair is something one wants but do not be under an illusion they are better justifications than any other ws.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:54 PM, Tuesday, February 4th]

I think most are saying it’s not in the bs’s best interest.

This is a big part of it. Even if one wants a D, It's not a good idea to violate one's own morals. Violating morals requires redemotion of suppression of what one has done. Either way, if you cheat, you pay.

DRS, I'll emphasize that, IMO, thinking so much about revenge is a sign that you have more healing to do ... and more healing you CAN do.

'Thought experiments' are not emotion-free. My reco is to focus on your emotions and resolve them.

*****

The As that I think about condoning are those in which one ap's partner is deep in dementia or close to a vegetative state and the other ap is single or whose partner is also deep in dementia or close to vegetative.

The counter-argument is that demented people often have brief periods of lucidity.

In cases of abuse, I believe the energy that goes into an A is better used to escape totally from the abuser....

Equally, anecdotally, my friendship circle despises cheaters. An consensus opinion that it's the worst legal thing you can do to someone. They would harshly judge a cheat.

Everyone hates cheaters and cheating until they're friends with the cheater who cheated. It's easy to take a hard stance when the situation is abstract.

DRS, I'll emphasize that, IMO, thinking so much about revenge is a sign that you have more healing to do ... and more healing you CAN do.

'Thought experiments' are not emotion-free. My reco is to focus on your emotions and resolve them.

Fair opinion, I definitely have an unhealthy interest in infidelity after going through it. Pain shopping perhaps? Not entirely sure. Outside of this interest, I think my life has improved to a far greater standard that it was before. In every conceivable way. If you were to ask my partner if my infidelity experience has created difficulty in our relationship, she'd say no. Other than ranting on about some particularly cruel stories I come across on reddit. 'How could someone act that way?' - sort of thing. Ask my friends and they'd say I'm a better person for it but again have a blinding hatred of cheaters when the topic comes about.

I'm a curious person on the whole, sometimes I read infidelity stories and my curiosity drives me to try and understand their thinking. What would I do in this case? Why would anyone keep someone like that in their life? Could I ever forgive someone given the scenario they've described?

Plus, if I'm entirely honest, I also simply enjoy a sprinted debate. As long as no ones feelings are getting hurt. I think it's healthy to test your ideas and see if they hold weight under scrutiny. Some will likely say 'find what works best for you and don't rock the boat' - personally I find that an intellectually dishonest way to life my life. I test my beliefs constantly. I try to adapt my ideas when holes are poked in them. So it's probably a mix of my experiences, how my thought processes work and maybe some pain shopping that leads me to doing a post like this. Irrespective of if I still have some healing to do it's out of the scope of this discussion.

Everyone hates cheaters and cheating until they're friends with the cheater who cheated. It's easy to take a hard stance when the situation is abstract.

This is a thing I see people say that is entirely at odds with my lived experience. Can't say your wrong but in my experience I have saw many people cut out for cheating. Perhaps it's my part of the world. Perhaps it's my specific friend group. I can't imagine anyone abiding cheating amongst my friends.

This is a thing I see people say that is entirely at odds with my lived experience. Can't say your wrong but in my experience I have saw many people cut out for cheating. Perhaps it's my part of the world. Perhaps it's my specific friend group. I can't imagine anyone abiding cheating amongst my friends.

It's effortless to cut the wayward out and villainize them when the couple has split. It's not so easy to cut out them out when the BS, who's your friend or family, remains in a relationship with them.

The idea of a revenge affair makes me think of Buffalo Bill in the Silence of the Lambs..."I'd do me!"

I guess it's great if I know someone else wants to have sex with me, but I can't really fathom how that relates to my partners desire to do so or how that helps our relationship. That said, if I'm "staying for the kids/finances/whatever," then who cares what my "partner" thinks. It's just business at that point, and we all know how moral business people are.

It's threads like these that make me happy my exWw just divorced my ass before I found out about her cheating.

I am still curious why we are ignoring the issue of character. This whole hypothetical relies on the BS changing their belief system. Morality is, in my opinion, a different(but relatable) topic.

Is that what happens when the marriage/relationship has been *nullified* by infidelity? Our character, at least the one that we lived by during the relationship, is also now null and void? Or are there exceptions to our own rules when we get hurt?

I think we did touch on character in the thread. As recently as this page Sissoon wrote:

It's not a good idea to violate one's own morals. Violating morals requires redemotion of suppression of what one has done.

I said a few things towards that earlier in the thread. However, the Op’s argument is that the cheating opened and nullified the marriage. So if that is your belief a revenge affair or subsequent affair then it doesn’t go against your sense of character.

So I think it’s been largely sidestepped as an argument because it doesn’t go against the OP’s character/value system. Some people believe when you are in an eye for an eye situation that’s a different story.

Hello everyone, long time lurker first time poster here.

@hikingout, since you have had first hand experience with RA's I'd like to ask you a question.

Lets say that your husband's RA had been much less egregious, e.g. 3 day text only EA that ended with 1 kiss after which he comes to his senses, breaks it off with his AP, comes home to you to confess, and then promises to repent. Assume d-day date is unchanged.

In this hypothetical case what are the odds you would have pushed for divorce as compared to his actual RA? much less? about the same? some other amount? and why?

[This message edited by mardandra at 6:42 AM, Wednesday, February 5th]

I am still curious why we are ignoring the issue of character. This whole hypothetical relies on the BS changing their belief system. Morality is, in my opinion, a different(but relatable) topic.

Is that what happens when the marriage/relationship has been *nullified* by infidelity? Our character, at least the one that we lived by during the relationship, is also now null and void? Or are there exceptions to our own rules when we get hurt?

I dont think we are ignoring character at all. The whole idea is based on the character of the BS...what would they do in such a situation... RA or not.

I said a few things towards that earlier in the thread. However, the Op’s argument is that the cheating opened and nullified the marriage. So if that is your belief a revenge affair or subsequent affair then it doesn’t go against your sense of character.

So I think it’s been largely sidestepped as an argument because it doesn’t go against the OP’s character/value system. Some people believe when you are in an eye for an eye situation that’s a different story.

I dont think it is about what goes against the OP's character/value system as much as saying this is more nuanced than an eye for an eye. It is more about how an individual would deal with a certain set of circumstances.

The OP stated

However, I imagined a hypothetical situation where I ‘had’ to remain with someone who betrayed me, perhaps due to complete financial dependence or similar circumstances.

Given the parameters of this scenario, I reflected on how I might navigate such a situation.

One definition of character is the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.

My sister got married in 2001. She had one child from a previous relationship and her and her husband had two more. She was a nurse working on a degree and later became a nurse practitioner.

In 2010 she was a victim of infidelity, her husband having a PA with a co-worker. It completely devastated her. He begged her for a second chance and they made a haphazard effort at R with IC and a MC that was not good with infidelity.

My sister was an extraordinarily disciplined person. Organized, meticulous, empathetic, understanding. The infidelity completely broke her mental state. She was unreliable, angry, careless, bitter. So much show that she started to make mistakes with patients. She had to take time off of work. Her husband tried to make things right but she spiraled. She was taking antidepressants and when those no longer worked started drinking. Never had been a drinker. She tried to sleep it away and became addicted to Ambien. She was really bad off.

However eventually with bills piling up she had to get back to work. Sometime in late 2013 or early 2014 she began an affair with a doctor that lasted about a year. The way she hid it was to become her old self...organized, meticulous.

When she was discovered her husband was devastated. She explained that revenge had very little to do with her thinking...just that she was broken and looked at the affair as a pain-killer.

In 2016 her husband was caught cheating again, and she had another affair as well.

They finally got back on track with a lot of help in 2019 and were faithful and R until her husband's death in 2024.

My sister is not the same person she was and it seems like she never will be. Even though they reconciled and seemed happy, that bitterness and cynicism never left her. She didnt throw away her character...it was broken.
So much so that when I told her about my WW and her infidelity, her immediate response was "cheat back".

A few months ago when I reminded her of that statement she laughed and admitted that was not the best advice.

I don't tell this story to justify or excuse ANY affair, just to point out that we can get into the space where we simplify something so illogical by leaning on ideas like character or morals.

One of the casualties of infidelity is the person's mental state, both BS and WS. No one knows how a person can or will react to something so devasting as finding out the person they trusted most has betrayed them in the most heinous way.

I would like to believe that character and morals should prevail, but any person once broken mentally and emotionally is not the same person as before and is capable of just about anything as long as they are in that state of mind.

I am still curious why we are ignoring the issue of character. This whole hypothetical relies on the BS changing their belief system. Morality is, in my opinion, a different(but relatable) topic.

I believe Hikingout accurately restated my views with the following:

I said a few things towards that earlier in the thread. However, the Op’s argument is that the cheating opened and nullified the marriage. So if that is your belief a revenge affair or subsequent affair then it doesn’t go against your sense of character.

If you've been cheated on, irrespective of your views, you've been partaking in a open relationship without your consent. The marriage is already open at this point. No way around that view. You could argue you should scramble to close it immediately and rebuild. In fact, that is what most members are stating is the best way forward. That or divorce I suppose. However, why would it be against my character to act within accord to the relationship I was already unwillingly apart of?

To add, as long as it's within your character to partake in causal hook-ups generally. Some members have stated that they are against this way of viewing sex generally. That's an entirely reasonable take. If that's your character, I suppose it would be at odds with your beliefs. You would then be hypocritical to RA. I personally, would be happy to have casual relationships under the right context. For example when single or perhaps in a 'FWB' situation.

I had a long term, long distance friends with benefits and we'd happily talk about our hook-ups in between meet ups. She lived in London and I the other side of the UK (around 7 hours away). In the strangest turn of events we both ended up sleeping with the same girl at different times. Not relevant just an unbelievably coincidental turn of events that still blows my mind.

One of the casualties of infidelity is the person's mental state, both BS and WS. No one knows how a person can or will react to something so devasting as finding out the person they trusted most has betrayed them in the most heinous way.

Maybe a topic for another day, it's something I find particularly disturbing about R in some cases. The betrayal smashes someone's self-esteem so entirely, then they are forced to either stay with the person who's hurt them deepest or have the self belief and self confidence to say: 'I deserve more than this' - which is going to be extremely hard to do given their current mental state. This also makes it easier to blame shift and throw the whole Esther Perel library at you. 'Yes I cheated but it's because we've drifted apart' I.E I'm not blaming you for the cheating but here your share of the blame for why I cheated. The BS then accepts this as they are so broken.

I personally think a lot of instances of knee-jerk R come down to this, though suppose these are the instances that would fail pretty quickly. The BS is so fragile, they attempt to cling onto their abuser due to their self-esteem being at an all time low and an abuser is better than no one.

Another reason why I always resent the 'it's easier to leave then stay and clean up the mess' argument. No. It's actually exceptionally hard to leave. Unless you've spent the last 7 years drilling it into yourself to never abide such circumstances and affirming you are worth more.

Hopefully I made the above clear that I'm not talking about all instances of R nor am I being disapproving of successful instances. Always have to add that bit, feel people are easily triggered in this area.

I’d rather not take the chance of finding out that there’s better sex out there than I have with my wife.

Can’t imagine how that would improve my life.

Theoretically it could improve your life in many ways.

If you were considering leaving, It could show you that others are far more sexually compatible with you and perhaps you should look into alternative relationships.

If you are considering staying it could show the opposite. It could also provide insight on how to improve you and your wife's sex life. Maybe you'd discover a thing you like via someone else that your wife could then do.

Problem I have with this thread is how many assumptions are presented as fact, or at best near-fact.
It’s like I would start a thread with some statements like "as most of us agree with the earth is flat", or "Its commonly accepted that Elvis is still alive and manages a bar in Cuba".

Like the comment about needing justification to divorce, or the comment about some affairs being justifiable. These are IMHO comments that are generally NOT accepted as general or common or even popular.
I would be OK with some of them as issues to discuss, but the big issue I have is that some of them might be high in the mind of the newly betrayed, and this can both negatively affect their ability to act, and their decision process.

For example: We often have BS who have EVERYTHING that tells them their spouse is cheating. Take your pick: STD’s, love-bites, sexually explicit texts, spending time with OP in hotel, sex-toys hidden in gym-bags... all examples we have read here on SI. Yet the BS needs "proof" to convince others that they are in the right to divorce.

Maybe because they think that their WS affair is one of the "justifiable" ones. Like... maybe she should have given more bj’s, or maybe he should have spent Saturday morning at home cleaning rather than play golf. Maybe their spouses affair is justifiable, and maybe it really is the BS fault...

Divorce isn’t a popularity contest. I actually think that in all cases it’s an admittance of having made a mistake. You made a mistake in your selection of a partner. However the biggest mistake one can actually make is to remain in a mistake... to not reconcile OR divorce. I fear that by making a statement as a fact:

This brings me to the often-debated notion that a cheater cannot justifiably divorce a partner who has also cheated.

When in FACT this so-called "often debated" issue is the first time I see this as a statement... can cause more damage than good. If this is often debated, then at least it isn't often mentioned on THIS site.

I want to address the concerns you've raised in this thread regarding assumptions being presented as facts.

It's important to recognize that we are discussing several competing opinions, and conflicting ideas cannot all be presented as absolute truths. For instance, you mentioned the notion that one needs justification for divorce, or that some affairs can be considered justifiable. In my opinion, these comments are not universally accepted or considered common. It's possible that our circles differ, or we’re engaging with different forums. Nonetheless, I appreciate that you are open to discussing these topics, as that is the purpose of this thread. I want to emphasize that nothing shared here is intended as prescriptive advice—I can only speak for my own views.

Regarding the need for justification in divorce, I specifically responded to your concerns with the following point:

"I think the word up for discussion here is 'justifiable.' While anyone can divorce anyone for any reason, claiming that a spouse’s failure to cook meatloaf like one’s mother justifies divorce might make one seem unreasonable. The key issue is whether one can justify divorcing someone for an act they once forgave."

I apologize if this clarification wasn’t clear earlier.

You also mentioned that betrayed spouses (BS) often have numerous indicators of infidelity—such as STDs, love bites, explicit texts, and suspicious hotel visits—but still feel the need to obtain "proof" to validate their decision to divorce. You suggested that they might consider the affair as "justifiable," perhaps based on their own perceived shortcomings in the relationship.

In general, the common advice is to control the narrative. When I went through my experience, my ex and a former friend consistently denied any wrongdoing until the evidence became undeniable. While I agree that an affair can be justifiable in cases of severe abuse, I don't believe the examples you've provided fit this criterion.

If you argue that such beliefs are damaging to betrayed spouses and create a need for them to prove they weren’t abusive, I would counter that individuals who leave for an affair often employ this tactic to justify their actions. I’ve seen many cases of this, where a wayward spouse (WS) claimed that the BS was abusive in order to rationalize their affair. I was fortunate that my ex denied the claims my former friend made of me.

Lastly, you mentioned that the issue of arguing if divorce is justifiable is being debated more in theory than in practice on this site. I’m sorry you haven’t come across those discussions. I have observed several, especially forums like r/SupportforWaywards. It might be that the framing of these discussions is different, leading to misinterpretations. No one is asserting that a WS cannot divorce their partner; rather, the discussion centers around whether such a divorce might be perceived as hypocritical. Would others view it as embarrassing for someone to divorce for an act they previously begged forgiveness for?

I hope this helps clarify my thoughts on the matter. Please feel free to share any further concerns.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 1:13 PM, Wednesday, February 5th]

If you are considering staying it could show the opposite. It could also provide insight on how to improve you and your wife's sex life. Maybe you'd discover a thing you like via someone else that your wife could then do.

Yet in the "can we talk about babygirl" thread most all bs’s were sickened by the idea their ws learned something with the ap, and most rejected that act moving forward. Your argument here dismisses that affairs are traumatizing even for ws. Again logic and emotions are two different streams of consciousness and do not always agree.

@hikingout, since you have had first hand experience with RA's I'd like to ask you a question.

Lets say that your husband's RA had been much less egregious, e.g. 3 day text only EA that ended with 1 kiss after which he comes to his senses, breaks it off with his AP, comes home to you to confess, and then promises to repent. Assume d-day date is unchanged.

In this hypothetical case what are the odds you would have pushed for divorce as compared to his actual RA? much less? about the same? some other amount? and why?

My husband had an 18 month affair in which for over a year he had sex with his ap in my home about 2-5 times a week.

I did not push for divorce, though I did consider divorce at different points. So I am thinking the answer would still be no.

What I did push for was he do some work on himself and come to terms with what he did and why. I wanted transparency, and I wanted him to go to therapy.

I probably still would have asked for that in the scenario you gave. Because until my husband could find a path towards healing our marriage was never going to improve. I had fought a hard battle myself and I did optimally want us to get our shit together and figure it out. But any type of thing where he would have involved another person would have told me he had work to do.

I had the benefit of the knowledge that In reality his affair wasn’t about me but his coping. It didn’t protect me from the grief of it, but it did help my balance sometimes.

Generally though, I don’t consider my husbands affair a revenge, more of a subsequent affair that occurred with the surrounding info he was still trying to cope from mine and he was drowning. I don’t think he was seeking justice, I think it was more he started confiding in a woman he was around all the time and it formed a bind with her. She saw my lifestyle and wanted it for herself. She admitted that to her bs.

I have stated though it felt like a dumpster fire so I did feel like getting out and starting over with a clean slate. So I did contemplate divorce and sometimes felt strongly about it for months at a time. I just wouldn’t say I pushed it. Mostly I kept those thoughts to myself, though he was aware of it in the sense I would shut down.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:53 PM, Wednesday, February 5th]

I would like to believe that character and morals should prevail, but any person once broken mentally and emotionally is not the same person as before and is capable of just about anything as long as they are in that state of mind.

Traydee, I appreciate what you are saying. Funny enough my sister has a very similar story. How they are still married I do not know, I do not believe either my husband or I would tolerate anything even in that direction again. Too much time has been wasted over shit that should never have happened in the first place. I will not waste time or energy fighting a battle like this again.

I do not regret reconciliation. I only regret we had to do it in the first place.

Anyway, the quote of what you wrote, I don’t think it applies just to a bs who retaliates or has a subsequent affair.

The thing is that a lot of the original ws could claim the same thing. I was very broken at the time of my affair. The only difference is my husband was mostly innocent in that breaking. This all boils down to a lot of people have affairs to cope. I think because you can identify with the type of pain a bs has that you can understand how that pain influences their state of mind. But my pain was very real, prolonged, and had made me very mentally unwell. It doesn’t justify what I did, and that’s why I do not feel ut hypocritical to say my husbands pain didn’t justify what he did either.

The bottom line is cheating to cope doesn’t help anything. . All cheating does is add more things that now you have to cope with. It doesn’t fix anything, it always in all circumstances makes things much worse.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:51 PM, Wednesday, February 5th]